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Thread: Boulder Police Response

  1. #1
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    Boulder Police Response

    Boulder Police response to open carrying included that can not carry in many areas of boulder because "they are close to municipal buildings"

    That's complete crap, no?

    Anyone with recent experiences in Boulder? I'm more concerned about response than the law. (Don't really care either way).

    Maybe its time for an OC Event IN Boulder?

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Complete crap, yes. I don't even know wtf it means...
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pace View Post
    Boulder Police response to open carrying included that can not carry in many areas of boulder because "they are close to municipal buildings"

    That's complete crap, no?

    Anyone with recent experiences in Boulder? I'm more concerned about response than the law. (Don't really care either way).

    Maybe its time for an OC Event IN Boulder?
    Do you have this in writing or some web site or other source we can look at?

    EDIT:
    If this was just some cop telling you this, he was either an idiot (for not knowing the law) or lying.
    Last edited by WCrawford; 09-20-2011 at 04:19 PM.

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    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    Well either way, I'll second the Boulder OC event. Let's get something on the calendar. What do you think, Pace?

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    Boulder . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace View Post
    Boulder Police response to open carrying included that can not carry in many areas of boulder because "they are close to municipal buildings"

    That's complete crap, no?

    Anyone with recent experiences in Boulder? I'm more concerned about response than the law. (Don't really care either way).

    Maybe its time for an OC Event IN Boulder?
    That is total bologna. Though I have not heard that one before, it doesn't surprise me they would say that.

    The Boulder police department hides behind the phrase "We enforce the municipal code". This allows them to harass open carriers and then say oh, well we were just acting on the way that the law was written, even though they know very well that their code is preempted.

    Another favorite of the BPD is to play the "If you don't have a CHP then your gun can not be loaded if you OC. . . so we can contact you to illegally search you and your weapon".

    This is wrong on several levels, first the code they cite for this doesn't say anything of the sort. Second, if open carry is a lawful activity contingent only on the status or your firearm they have no RAS to stop you in the first place (unless you advertise you are loaded). How could they reasonably suspect your gun was loaded? We know all citizens know the law and follow it so the loaded OC without a permit should not happen so they shouldnt suspect it! *Wink*Nudge*

    Anyway. . . I have been contacted several times by BPD for open carry. Most of the encounters were fine a nod hello and nothing else, no comment so stop, no attempt to engage in conversation. Other encounters triggered a 4 person detail, frenzied questioning and smug remarks like "And your counting on what to save you?"

    In the most abusive encounter the officer approached said "Hey you, come talk to me", I told him no, I was busy (I was in the middle of a conversation). He again asked for me to come out side, I declined. He then asked me to identify myself, I asked him if he was ordering me to identify myself, he asked me again to come outside, I asked him if he was ordering me outside, he said yes. I went outside and the condescending and smug questioning began. I was approached from behind by an officer, flanked by 2 and had one in front of me. They continued to ask questions. I told them if they were detaining me then I had nothing to say. They verified my identity then informed me what I was doing was "illegal". I informed them it was not but if they thought it was they were welcome to cite and/or arrest me. I then requested a supervisor. He came, I informed him that I was going to walk away and get in my car. They let me leave.

    Sorry for the play by play, but it is probably informative to some.

    I followed up with the Sergent on duty via phone and in person, the office of professional standards and City Attorneys office. The sergeant gave me the line above about the weapon being loaded. The CA and the office of professional standards have blown me off despite repeat attempts to contact them.

    YMMV but those are my experiences.

    Another point, I find it interesting that the Boulder County Sheriffs Headquarters in the city of Boulder has a no open carry sign posted. If Boulders Municipal Code was enforceable, they would not need such a sign as open carry would already be prohibited andI would have no legal way to get from my car to their front door. Just some food for thought, how can one agency understand state preemption properly (you have to post it for it to be enforceable) and the other not?

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    Sorry for the play by play, but it is probably informative to some.

    I followed up with the Sergent on duty via phone and in person... gave me the line above about the weapon being loaded.
    The detailed report is good info to know.

    It'd be nice to know if such a line of B.S. could be gotten in writing (probably why you'll get no response). Otherwise, it means nothing, but it's a situation waiting for some poor OC-er to get in the trouble and initiate the lawsuit to get them to make official statements in public, or clean up their act and follow the law.
    It's another instance of Boulder law choosing to ignore the intent and use the word of the law to do what they want, even if it's against the stated intent of the language in the law.

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    Cases

    I recently did a public records request at the BPD and found one case where someone was cited with carrying a loaded firearm. I havent had a chance to go over and get the case file yet but I will soon. I have also requested the Boulder City court record for the same case, need to pick that up also. As soon as i get to it i will post up the gist of it.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boulder_1 View Post
    The Boulder police department hides behind the phrase "We enforce the municipal code". This allows them to harass open carriers and then say oh, well we were just acting on the way that the law was written, even though they know very well that their code is preempted.

    Another favorite of the BPD is to play the "If you don't have a CHP then your gun can not be loaded if you OC. . . so we can contact you to illegally search you and your weapon".

    This is wrong on several levels, first the code they cite for this doesn't say anything of the sort. Second, if open carry is a lawful activity contingent only on the status or your firearm they have no RAS to stop you in the first place (unless you advertise you are loaded). How could they reasonably suspect your gun was loaded? We know all citizens know the law and follow it so the loaded OC without a permit should not happen so they shouldnt suspect it! *Wink*Nudge*
    If we do have a Boulder OC Meet, let's all carry a few rolled-up sheets of 8-1/2" x 11" paper in our hands. On them would be Boulder's municiple code, their Police Department's General Orders with respect to contact, detainment, and arrest, and applicable C.R.S.

    If one of us is stopped, we can all simply unroll them and say, "Where does it say that in here? It doesn't say that in here..."

    Anyway. . . I have been contacted several times by BPD for open carry. Most of the encounters were fine a nod hello and nothing else, no comment so stop, no attempt to engage in conversation. Other encounters triggered a 4 person detail, frenzied questioning and smug remarks like "And your counting on what to save you?"
    My response would be, "now that you're here, that would be you. (helps stroke their ego) Before you arrive, however, that would be me.

    Sorry for the play by play, but it is probably informative to some.
    I'd say it's informative to us all. There's a reason people practice things over and over. Details such as you gave act as a review for the rest of us.

    I followed up with the Sergent on duty via phone and in person, the office of professional standards and City Attorneys office. The sergeant gave me the line above about the weapon being loaded. The CA and the office of professional standards have blown me off despite repeat attempts to contact them.
    Write them, requesting a reply. CC the mayor, town council, and a couple of local and non-local newspapers.

    Another point, I find it interesting that the Boulder County Sheriffs Headquarters in the city of Boulder has a no open carry sign posted. If Boulders Municipal Code was enforceable, they would not need such a sign as open carry would already be prohibited andI would have no legal way to get from my car to their front door. Just some food for thought, how can one agency understand state preemption properly (you have to post it for it to be enforceable) and the other not?
    Sheriff vs Police. It's not that one's right the other's wrong. It's just that both operate under the same laws, but under different pressures.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. They both protect the rest, but only if you exercise them.

    Nothing in this post is to be misconstrued as "advice" of any kind. It is merely my opinion.

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    OC rally in Boulder?

    What is the status of the proposed open carry rally in Boulder? I recently spoke to boulder police and they said it is legal to open carry as long as it is visible from three sides, ie hip.

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boulderrocks View Post
    What is the status of the proposed open carry rally in Boulder?
    yes, i'm in. although i don't frequent boulder enough to know where would be good to hold such an event. any ideas?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by boulderrocks View Post
    What is the status of the proposed open carry rally in Boulder? I recently spoke to boulder police and they said it is legal to open carry as long as it is visible from three sides, ie hip.
    Another gem from BPD. Visible from three sides? Where do they get this stuff? Did you also know that it must be in a holster that exposes both the grip and the muzzle of the firearm? Oh and you're not allowed to OC a weapon that has no external safety.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member RebelWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Another gem from BPD. Visible from three sides? Where do they get this stuff? Did you also know that it must be in a holster that exposes both the grip and the muzzle of the firearm? Oh and you're not allowed to OC a weapon that has no external safety.
    This made me LOL! Did you also know that the weapon can't have a mag. in it, and must have the slide open at all times, to make sure it has no round in the chamber?

    It's amazing how much mis-information an officer will give you.

    BTW none of these restrictions exist for Open Carry. My post, and obviously Beau's post are purely sarcasm.

    Peace to you all,

    RebelWolf

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelWolf View Post
    My post, and obviously Beau's post are purely sarcasm.
    Surely, but we should continue in that vein... "It must also be painted blaze orange, with red diagonal strips, to ensure that all law-enforcement officer, citizens, criminals, and other open carriers know precisely who is armed and who is not. Blaze orange and a red flashing light must be worn as a halo, and must be wired to illuminate, along with an accompanying siren, any time the firearm is drawn from the holster. The light and siren must remain enabled at all times, and may be disabled by the carrier only after returning to his or her private resident. In addition to the light a siren, the carrier must employ an automated cellular notification service to..."

    Well, I was enjoying the moment...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. They both protect the rest, but only if you exercise them.

    Nothing in this post is to be misconstrued as "advice" of any kind. It is merely my opinion.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The light and siren must remain enabled at all times, and may be disabled by the carrier only after returning to his or her private resident...
    Howdy Pardner!
    I've known you to be a bright fellow, and one who usually likes to have the facts, but I am completely taken aback at this error in your post. And it isn't even a little one either, but a big, huge, honking mistake. You're so wrong here. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    There ain't no such thing as a private residence in Boulder!!!! Did you not know that all property belongs to the people? The People's Republic of Boulder have eradicated the nuisance of privacy and privately held property for the good of the people. And guns do not fit into that picture within the hive. Should one bee be armed, then they'll all want a stinger.

    I've always heard that you can openly carry a firearm with you, so long as it is in a field stripped condition, with the firing pin removed and kept in a different pocket from the hammer. But I dunno. I only observe from a distance, in much the same way Frodo looked upon Mordor!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Please don't demonize any people. There are two types of people in any issues: uneducated and the educated.

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    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. They both protect the rest, but only if you exercise them.

    Nothing in this post is to be misconstrued as "advice" of any kind. It is merely my opinion.

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