March on Washington 07-04-2013

[Tucker6900]

To assert your rights does not require a physical act. I will assert my rights, if need be, and live to fight in a court of law.

Taking your chances in today's juctice system is just as risky as physically resisting. Every time we allow an officer to bully us into submission, we have effectively given up our rights. A person has two options....Submit to the threats of violence and allow them to take control of you, or resist.

 

[OC for ME]

You mean like when Sotamayor said in order to assert your right to remain silent you must, speak and tell them you are invoking your right to remain silent.....

Funny.....and a appropriate reference.

However, inferring that, or overtly advocating that, physical force be employed to prevent a cop from conducting a unlawful search and seizure is what I was rebuking.

 

[Grapeshot]

Taking your chances in today's juctice(sic) system is just as risky as physically resisting. Every time we allow an officer to bully us into submission, we have effectively given up our rights. A person has two options....Submit to the threats of violence and allow them to take control of you, or resist.

Totally disagree with limiting the options to one extreme or the other, especially physically resisting. With an even tone and demeanor, one might engage in educational conversation so long as no holding-court-in-the-street diatribe is made. Either of these may gain you more grief than is needed.

In my observation the Gold Standard is found in our Forum Rules:

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

 

[rushcreek2]

July 4th is a day that freedom loving patriotic Americans celebrate all over the country. It is a holiday when most folks will be at home BBQ'ing.

I would hope that all concerned will appreciate that if FIREWORKS erupts as a result of a peaceful assembly of citizens exercising their 1st Amendment, and 2nd Amendment secured rights on the 4th of July - the grievances heretofore channeled through the 1st Amendment will shift to 2nd Amendment forms of expression.

This will be a day for celebrating our INDEPENDENCE from abusive governance . It should be respected by all but tyrants.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
I would hope that all concerned will appreciate that if FIREWORKS erupts as a result of a peaceful assembly of citizens exercising their 1st Amendment, and 2nd Amendment secured rights on the 4th of July - the grievances heretofore channeled through the 1st Amendment will shift to 2nd Amendment forms of expression.

When that assembly is in violation of law it rings a bell that cannot be unrung. The question is not whether the event is painted peaceful or not, but whether the conditions are legal - IMO they are not.

The innuendo in the quoted statement implies a very destructive process - a response not acceptable to OCDO.

 

[eye95]

July 4th is a day that freedom loving patriotic Americans celebrate all over the country. It is a holiday when most folks will be at home BBQ'ing.

I would hope that all concerned will appreciate that if FIREWORKS erupts as a result of a peaceful assembly of citizens exercising their 1st Amendment, and 2nd Amendment secured rights on the 4th of July - the grievances heretofore channeled through the 1st Amendment will shift to 2nd Amendment forms of expression.

This will be a day for celebrating our INDEPENDENCE from abusive governance . It should be respected by all but tyrants.

The quotes from the organizer in my signature indicate that he is only giving lip-service to "peaceful." I have zero doubt that he harbors a wish for shots to ring out from one side or the other.

 

[joanie]

Humanity is on the Brink of Something Amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOds5C4DI8

This goes futher than the 1st, the 2ed, and even the most attacked right, the 4th. This is about the direction, the future of humanity. Will we do what humans are meant to do? freely evolve. Or will be be locked into slavery and just the reverse, de-evolve.

Whatever or whoever else Adam Kokesh might be or claim to be, I truly believe he does not intend, or hope for a violent outcome to this. Corpratist government are killing us in our food, water and medicine, then outlawing any other kind, yes, people have been arrested for having their own garden. 9/11 was an inside job, a false flag to justify wars, killing, and the taking of our freedoms. They see a future of RDIF chips inplanted under our skin, and forced vaccinnes that sterilize us and shorten our life, compromise our health, so we would be dependant on big government. In today's word of over 7 billion people, being a slave isn't enough. They have no use for 7 billion slaves, That means mass depopulation on a scale few con imagine. They have it already marked out, the 10 FEMA reagions, people labled by colors, red being the hot targets and so on. BTW, I would be in the red catogory because I speak out against this. But being the first to be killed, I will be amoung the lucky ones. There is no future if we don't expose and beat this tyranny.

I don't know if this march is the best thing to do, but I do know that something needs to be done, people need to be shaken out of their comas. Awoken to the truth. Again, I fully endorse and support this, I hope it goes well, and, if it don't, I'm 99.9 percent sure it will be the fault of police and government, not those with Adam.

 

[eye95]

Again, read his OWN words about this march. They are in my signature.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Gray Rider]

Marching to the wrong drummer...

...or birds of a feather flock together. http://www.examiner.com/article/arm...ated-with-leftist-code-pink-and-radical-islam

 

[sharkey]

...or birds of a feather flock together. http://www.examiner.com/article/arm...ated-with-leftist-code-pink-and-radical-islam

To put a photoshopped picture on the article is reprehensible.

It's one thing to argue with truth and belief but quite different to stoop to such deception to sway the masses.

 

[XD40sc]

"..eliminate gun rights,..." As if a Right can be eliminated. Rights are ideas and cannot be exterminated as long as someone is willing to stand.

I think you are seriously underestimating how ruthless the bastards running this country can be. Martial law, and suspension of all right, resist and die. Do you really think they give a damn about you and your rights. Dead, you are no longer a problem. 50,000 dead insurgents, overthrow of the government successfully avoided, and you will never see the truth on the news. The internet will also be shutdown, the media gagged.

This protest can go very wrong, and be used to revoke the 2A. And the government can write the script how they want this to play out, simply plant one person in the crowd to start shooting, even if they are firing blanks.

 

[XD40sc]

Humanity is on the Brink of Something Amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suOds5C4DI8

This goes futher than the 1st, the 2ed, and even the most attacked right, the 4th. This is about the direction, the future of humanity. Will we do what humans are meant to do? freely evolve. Or will be be locked into slavery and just the reverse, de-evolve.

Whatever or whoever else Adam Kokesh might be or claim to be, I truly believe he does not intend, or hope for a violent outcome to this. Corpratist government are killing us in our food, water and medicine, then outlawing any other kind, yes, people have been arrested for having their own garden. 9/11 was an inside job, a false flag to justify wars, killing, and the taking of our freedoms. They see a future of RDIF chips inplanted under our skin, and forced vaccinnes that sterilize us and shorten our life, compromise our health, so we would be dependant on big government. In today's word of over 7 billion people, being a slave isn't enough. They have no use for 7 billion slaves, That means mass depopulation on a scale few con imagine. They have it already marked out, the 10 FEMA reagions, people labled by colors, red being the hot targets and so on. BTW, I would be in the red catogory because I speak out against this. But being the first to be killed, I will be amoung the lucky ones. There is no future if we don't expose and beat this tyranny.

I don't know if this march is the best thing to do, but I do know that something needs to be done, people need to be shaken out of their comas. Awoken to the truth. Again, I fully endorse and support this, I hope it goes well, and, if it don't, I'm 99.9 percent sure it will be the fault of police and government, not those with Adam.

Your naivety and under-estimation of how utterly ruthless the bastards in power can be is simply stunning. 10,000 or 50,000 armed insurrectionists will rebuffed in their attempt to overthrow the government is a possible outcome, and they can make it play out how ever they want.

 

[JmE]

XD40sc, while I agree with you about how ruthless our "rulers" can be; I ask you, does the government fear us or do we fear it? If enough Americans understood our government as you and I do, would they hide or would they fight back?

(** This statement and question is NOT directly about the march. IIRC, I've already stated that I believe that participating in this march is foolish; even though I will be participating... IMHO, it's time to do something more.)

 

[sharkey]

Your naivety and under-estimation of how utterly ruthless the bastards in power can be is simply stunning. 10,000 or 50,000 armed insurrectionists will rebuffed in their attempt to overthrow the government is a possible outcome, and they can make it play out how ever they want.

Your naivety and under-estimation of how an idea that spreads can topple existing institutions is simply stunning.

Did you miss the Arab Spring? Were those leaders not ruthless bastards? Did they not control the media?

They failed.

 

[Gil223]

This protest can go very wrong, and be used to revoke the 2A. And the government can write the script how they want this to play out, simply plant one person in the crowd to start shooting, even if they are firing blanks.

I doubt that this "protest" alone could justifiably be used to revoke 2A, but... it certainly would add fuel to the fire. And if revocation was in the plan, it would be time to exercise the rights acknowledged in 2A. Pax...

 

[joanie]

Your naivety and under-estimation of how utterly ruthless the bastards in power can be is simply stunning. 10,000 or 50,000 armed insurrectionists will rebuffed in their attempt to overthrow the government is a possible outcome, and they can make it play out how ever they want.


Sarcasam alert- I'm just clueless, I have no idea how ruthless those in power can be. Not the police and jail gaurds on a local level, and certainly not the federal troops, UN forces, DHS and the like. -end sarcasam... Or maybe, just maybe, I've been through enough in my life on a local level, and read news stories from my own scorces on a federal level, that I see no real, long term advantage in playing it safe, going along to get along, ect. Maybe, I place more value in the future of humanity, than living within the endless list of laws that keeps growing. Maybe I'm more concerned with whats right, than right now.

But does it really matter what I think about this? Can't we just agree to disagree?, I don't expect others to agree with my views and opinions, I'm really ok with those who don't.

We all post on this site because we have a common intrest in openly carrying handguns. Some for self defence and as a deterent, some for the personal freedom factor (goes to God given free will) and some for reasons that might be more, or less valid. This march can only be a threat to that, if we let it be. I have to believe that with or without this march, they are going to attack the 2ed amendment. Find reasons, or make reasons, stage events. They don't need this march for that, If they use this march for that, I say, lets expose it, expose their involvment. Condeming this out of fear of losing our right/s, just don't set well with me.

 

[ron73440]

If this march creates a huge backlash from the government, then I believe our freedoms are a lot less secure than than the general consensus on this board seems to show.

 

[Grapeshot]

One of the posters/users on this thread will likely be determined to be right. He/she should rush and buy a PowerBall lottery ticket immediately - all of that money may assuage their guilty feeling.

 

[JmE]

This march can only be a threat to that, if we let it be. I have to believe that with or without this march, they are going to attack the 2ed amendment. Find reasons, or make reasons, stage events. They don't need this march for that, If they use this march for that, I say, lets expose it, expose their involvment. Condeming this out of fear of losing our right/s, just don't set well with me.

We stated! You took the words right from beneath my fingers.

ETA: And this too.

If this march creates a huge backlash from the government, then I believe our freedoms are a lot less secure than than the general consensus on this board seems to show.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Funny.....and a appropriate reference.

However, inferring that, or overtly advocating that, physical force be employed to prevent a cop from conducting a unlawful search and seizure is what I was rebuking.

I understand but we still have the common law right to do that. A still standing SCOTUS decision Bad Elk vs US. Justice Sanders dissent in Valentine vs City of Spokane, is a great read on this right.

Why don't we advocate this? Is it because the system has become such a violent force of coercion it does no good? Is it because we believe we are the subjects of the system and must submit to the actions of it's street warriors? Is it because we feel things will get worked out in court?...........? To me all these point to how wrong the system has become and strayed from protecting liberty to enforcing tyranny.

P.S. not advocating just discussing what is wrong with the monopolization of force into the government which is contrary to the whole idea behind the RKBA.



I have another question for those so upset with this march which can simply be an exercise of 1st amendment. (Much like nude protests have been ruled exercise of free speech even though they are contrary to indecency laws)

What are we going to do on the 5th if things do get out of hand? Who's side are we going to be on?