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March on Washington 07-04-2013

ron73440

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
474
Location
Suffolk VA
I understand but we still have the common law right to do that. A still standing SCOTUS decision Bad Elk vs US. Justice Sanders dissent in Valentine vs City of Spokane, is a great read on this right.

Why don't we advocate this? Is it because the system has become such a violent force of coercion it does no good? Is it because we believe we are the subjects of the system and must submit to the actions of it's street warriors? Is it because we feel things will get worked out in court?...........? To me all these point to how wrong the system has become and strayed from protecting liberty to enforcing tyranny.

P.S. not advocating just discussing what is wrong with the monopolization of force into the government which is contrary to the whole idea behind the RKBA.



I have another question for those so upset with this march which can simply be an exercise of 1st amendment. (Much like nude protests have been ruled exercise of free speech even though they are contrary to indecency laws)

What are we going to do on the 5th if things do get out of hand? Who's side are we going to be on?

I wouldn't advocate resisting a bad arrest, because you will not win.

They will call for backup, you'll be tazed, OC'ed, possibly shot, and in the end they will still take you to jail.

That might make me a pansy, but that's what I see happening.

As far as what to do if the rally gets out of hand, that depends on exactly what happens, I'll be paying attention and hoping for a good outcome.
 

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
I think you are seriously underestimating how ruthless the bastards running this country can be. Martial law, and suspension of all right, resist and die. Do you really think they give a damn about you and your rights. Dead, you are no longer a problem. 50,000 dead insurgents, overthrow of the government successfully avoided, and you will never see the truth on the news. The internet will also be shutdown, the media gagged.

This protest can go very wrong, and be used to revoke the 2A. And the government can write the script how they want this to play out, simply plant one person in the crowd to start shooting, even if they are firing blanks.


XD40sc, while I agree with you about how ruthless our "rulers" can be; I ask you, does the government fear us or do we fear it? If enough Americans understood our government as you and I do, would they hide or would they fight back?

(** This statement and question is NOT directly about the march. IIRC, I've already stated that I believe that participating in this march is foolish; even though I will be participating... IMHO, it's time to do something more.)


Your naivety and under-estimation of how an idea that spreads can topple existing institutions is simply stunning.

Did you miss the Arab Spring? Were those leaders not ruthless bastards? Did they not control the media?

They failed.


It all comes down to who is more determined. Look at Syria, those guys (not soldiers) fighting Assad's forces are just that, guys. No tacticool gear, body armor, night vision, etc.. Just a willingness to fight, kill and if need be, die for something they believe in. Or even one they have been taught to believe in...

'Are you the new recruit?’ asked the invisible police chief. . . ‘All right. You are engaged.’
. . . ‘I really have no experience,’ Syme began.
"No one has any experience,’ said the other, ‘of the battle of Armageddon.’
‘But I am really unfit—’
‘You are willing, that is enough,’ said the unknown.
‘Well, really,’ said Syme, ‘I don’t know any profession of which mere willingness is the final test.
‘I do,’ said the other—‘martyrs. I am condeming you to death. Good day.’

GK Chesterton, The Man who was Thursday
 

shastadude17

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
150
Location
United States
Again, read his OWN words about this march. They are in my signature.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I think you took it out of context to be honest...yeah, he's trying to be edgy, I get that, but I think what he's saying is that it's just a huge OC demonstration where it's illegal to do so (thus a large civil disobedience demonstration of criminal proportions), and the aim whether you like it or not is DUH, YES, to overthrow a government that keeps getting more and more corrupt and taking away civil liberties. This doesn't mean he wishes for blood to be spilled, no one does. It can happen peacefully, or it can happen violently, it is ultimately up to the government response.

Just keep this in mind, when I was in the LEO academy, on day 1 in chapter 1 of the book, "sovereign immunity" was mentioned. It literally said in the book, verbatim, "Sovereign Immunity derives from the common law belief that the king and his agents can do no wrong."

^^^ And that is your Florida State Law Enforcement Academy curriculum as of 2012. Enjoy your police state, LEO's are being indoctrinated from day 1 to believe that whatever the government does is right, simply because it's the government.
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
One of the posters/users on this thread will likely be determined to be right. He/she should rush and buy a PowerBall lottery ticket immediately - all of that money may assuage their guilty feeling.

I'm pretty good at math, so I don't buy lottery tickets, or more correctly lootery tickets, never have, never will, I did the math.

I'm also smart enough to pick my battles, and marching on the capital of a country with a firearm displayed (does not matter if it is loaded or not) is not a battle that will not do anything but unite the anti-gun freaks at best, or turn into a blood bath, followed by martial law at worst.

Or merely one cop, agent, NG, that wets his pants and fires.

Unarmed college students shot and killed because some NG soldier wet his pants and shot.

kentstate-07716f656eca21c8b97bf21c496d965d0945965f-s6-c10.jpg

If anyone decides to go to Washington to protest, at least have you will updated and get your affairs in order for the sake of your family.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
BTW - presuming Kokesh does not pierce the boundaries of Arlington National Cemetary, his march will be legal on the Virginia half of the Memorial Bridge; Chief Lanier has said she intends to meet the marchers at the boundary of DC. If Kokesh is serious about stopping and turning around as soon as they meet armed resistance, it will be a very short march.
Virginia claims out to mid Potomac. Something about how Arlington was given back to Virginia.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I think you took it out of context...

Actually, when I first encountered the words, I questioned whether they were taken out of context, whether they were properly represented, and whether Kokesh even said them. So I spent some time and researched it. I found the interview in which Kokesh said the words. I even acknowledged how the site that posted the words misrepresented them as though they were one contiguous statement, but they were actually two separate quotations. They mean what they quite simply communicate.

Feel free to watch the whole disgusting video. Look for how Jones tries to guide Kokesh away from those words, but Kokesh just won't go. Try to explain how he did not mean that he was promoting armed rebellion and did not mean that the goal was to overthrow the government.

Folks check out Kokesh's own words. They are in my signature. They are stark and shocking, but not unexpected when you consider the source.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The DC pd chief is laughing at this event and says they will meet marchers on the bridge. She has said in the past - she's not worried because : "in the past calls for 2A marches on DC have amounted to nothing.." .

Basically the only way to win is to have a huge turnout seperate from the kokesh march. Otherwise this will be seen as just another weak, half hearted call for 2A demonstrations as in the past. They have no fear or respect for citizens... simple as that.

She sees this as a "game" her words, and one that is clearly tilted in her favor. This said it would be great if 10,000 non kokesh marchers showed up & legally transported their firearms in DC. Then the chief would have to explain how it was that the 10,000 guns did not cause a spike in crime, and how the opposite occurred? ;)
www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=fye8cxkMH4o
Edit for typo's damn auto-spell.
 
Last edited:

shastadude17

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
150
Location
United States
Actually, when I first encountered the words, I questioned whether they were taken out of context, whether they were properly represented, and whether Kokesh even said them. So I spent some time and researched it. I found the interview in which Kokesh said the words. I even acknowledged how the site that posted the words misrepresented them as though they were one contiguous statement, but they were actually two separate quotations. They mean what they quite simply communicate.

Feel free to watch the whole disgusting video. Look for how Jones tries to guide Kokesh away from those words, but Kokesh just won't go. Try to explain how he did not mean that he was promoting armed rebellion and did not mean that the goal was to overthrow the government.

Folks check out Kokesh's own words. They are in my signature. They are stark and shocking, but not unexpected when you consider the source.

Well as far as I'm concerned, the US government became illegitimate when they passed the Patriot Act and NDAA. We're slowly moving towards a police state unfortunately :[
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
The DC pd chief is laughing at this event and says they will meet marchers on the bridge. She has said in the past - she's not worried because : "in the past calls for 2A marches on DC have amounted to nothing.." .

Basically the only way to win is to have a huge turnout seperate from the kokesh march. Otherwise this will be seen as just another weak, half hearted call for 2A demonstrations as in the past. They have no fear or respect for citizens... simple as that.

She sees this as a "game" her words, and one that is clearly tilted in her favor. This said it would be great if 10,000 non kokesh marchers showed up & legally transported their firearms in DC. Then the chief would have to explain how it was that the 10,000 guns did not cause a spike in crime, and how the opposite occurred? ;)
www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=fye8cxkMH4o
Edit for typo's damn auto-spell.

Now THAT's a good idea!

If I were the DCPD chief, I'd pick the most harmless looking cop with the biggest stones (actual or virtual) and send that one lone cop to the middle of the bridge, wearing a dress uniform with white gloves. I'd instruct him or her to just stand there, waiting for the marchers, putting up a single hand in a "stop" gesture and uttering a single word, "Stop." If Kokesh acts as he says he will (he won't), everyone will look pretty silly walking back with their tails between their legs because a single small cop told 10,000 armed people to do so. Kokesh can then quietly be arrest by this mini-cop or make a total ass of himself. It would be classic.

Actually, I'd expect an indignant Kokesh to try to force a confrontation. I kinda expect the DC police to opt for a flamboyant confrontation too, as opposed to the elegant and simple solution I have suggested. This is going to be a giant ******* contest, but with bullets.

A quiet little demonstration against Kokesh and the DC tyranny would be a nice counterpoint. If there is such an organized event and I can make it, I'd be there for it.
 

Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
Possibly a new wrinkle in the plans.....Mr. Kokesh has been in custody of the U.S. Park Police the past few hours.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/350392

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NTHBC6JOc4M

Be interesting to see what the terms of bail are [law abiding stipulation]. If he gets to post bail. What better way to control a threat than to keep 'em in lockup.

Things work a little different with federal charges. A federal magistrate judge can, as far as bail is concerned: release him without conditions; release him with conditions; or detain him for trial. Remember, bail bond companies usually want 150% collateral to cover the secured amount. The process can stretch out a long time.
 
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joanie

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
306
Location
..
Honestly, I can't believe some of what I'm reading here. Is this Adam Kokesh's fight?, or is it our fight? All of us, who value our freedom, value our rights. How long will we be obligated to follow the laws of a government that has repetedly broke it's contract with us?

God Hath Not Given Us The Spirit Of Fear- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTzo1Lah4fw

Yes Alex Jones did try to steer Mr Kokesh away from those words, I wasn't sure those words were the best to use when I first heard them, but more and more, I'm coming around to those words. those words outline exactly what needs to happen, hopefully through peacefull means, but if thats not possible, then we all have a choice to make. I've made my choice, or a choice anyhow. That I'd rather die, than live as a slave. I believe our freedom is tied to our humanity.

Thats what this march is supposed to be, to see where we stand. I'm going to look at that link because I wasn't aware that Adam had been arrested. Make no mistake though, with or without Adam Kokesh, this march, or something very similar, needs to happen, soon.
 

shastadude17

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
150
Location
United States
Honestly, I can't believe some of what I'm reading here. Is this Adam Kokesh's fight?, or is it our fight? All of us, who value our freedom, value our rights. How long will we be obligated to follow the laws of a government that has repetedly broke it's contract with us?

God Hath Not Given Us The Spirit Of Fear- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTzo1Lah4fw

Yes Alex Jones did try to steer Mr Kokesh away from those words, I wasn't sure those words were the best to use when I first heard them, but more and more, I'm coming around to those words. those words outline exactly what needs to happen, hopefully through peacefull means, but if thats not possible, then we all have a choice to make. I've made my choice, or a choice anyhow. That I'd rather die, than live as a slave. I believe our freedom is tied to our humanity.

Thats what this march is supposed to be, to see where we stand. I'm going to look at that link because I wasn't aware that Adam had been arrested. Make no mistake though, with or without Adam Kokesh, this march, or something very similar, needs to happen, soon.

This. Exactly. I'm starting to think the majority of my fellow gun owners would roll over and be legislated into a Canadian/UK/Aussie situation before they'd get upset and want to do something about it...and by then it will be too late.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Kokesh is the organizer. He is setting the parameters and demanding participants abide by HIS rules. It is his show. Make no mistake about it. I despise folks trying to control a grassroots movement just as much as I despise tyrants in government. Just ask the dictator of the erstwhile Alabama Open Carry. Kokesh is just such a petty tyrant. He has no interest in Liberty. His interest is in self-agrandizement.

If you really want to participate in a July 4 demonstration against the DC tyranny, help organize and participate in an alternate demonstration as proposed by another poster above.

I would love to participate in such an event, denouncing official tyranny and unofficial control-freaks like Kokesh.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
One of the posters/users on this thread will likely be determined to be right. He/she should rush and buy a PowerBall lottery ticket immediately - all of that money may assuage their guilty feeling.

I never play the lottery , but I bought seven tickets.

If I win I will cover the next ten ferry tales.
 

joanie

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
306
Location
..
I just watched the video and lost some respect for Adam Kokesh. I was hearing in full distortion, "no victim, no crime" however, there are victims to smoking, those subjected to the second hand smoke. Everyone needs to breathe. By that logic though, all kinds of smoking should be outlawed, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Smokers make assumptions, like "I'm clear over here" they must not have heard of wind. I've been harassed by the police for not smoking, so it's not about the pot smoking with them, it's about "lets make everyone a criminal and then we can arrest them at whim"

I suspect he got himself arrested on purpose, to avoid this march that he got started. If thats the case I've lost all respect for him. However, it's only a suspition on my part.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The DC pd chief is laughing at this event and says they will meet marchers on the bridge. She has said in the past - she's not worried because : "in the past calls for 2A marches on DC have amounted to nothing.." .

Basically the only way to win is to have a huge turnout seperate from the kokesh march. Otherwise this will be seen as just another weak, half hearted call for 2A demonstrations as in the past. They have no fear or respect for citizens... simple as that.

She sees this as a "game" her words, and one that is clearly tilted in her favor. This said it would be great if 10,000 non kokesh marchers showed up & legally transported their firearms in DC. Then the chief would have to explain how it was that the 10,000 guns did not cause a spike in crime, and how the opposite occurred? ;)
www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=fye8cxkMH4o
Edit for typo's damn auto-spell.

Now THAT's a good idea!

If I were the DCPD chief, I'd pick the most harmless looking cop with the biggest stones (actual or virtual) and send that one lone cop to the middle of the bridge, wearing a dress uniform with white gloves. I'd instruct him or her to just stand there, waiting for the marchers, putting up a single hand in a "stop" gesture and uttering a single word, "Stop." If Kokesh acts as he says he will (he won't), everyone will look pretty silly walking back with their tails between their legs because a single small cop told 10,000 armed people to do so. Kokesh can then quietly be arrest by this mini-cop or make a total ass of himself. It would be classic.

Actually, I'd expect an indignant Kokesh to try to force a confrontation. I kinda expect the DC police to opt for a flamboyant confrontation too, as opposed to the elegant and simple solution I have suggested. This is going to be a giant ******* contest, but with bullets.

A quiet little demonstration against Kokesh and the DC tyranny would be a nice counterpoint. If there is such an organized event and I can make it, I'd be there for it.

For those who missed it - I think this is our only winning move! Anyone willing to help plan/organize this?
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I am willing. I can't guarantee I will be there because of my job. But I will move heaven and earth trying.

I do have one condition on my participation. This must NOT be run by one person. It must be a grassroots effort.

But, whether or not I can be there, I will spend time and resources helping to make an alternative rally occur--one that says NO! to the DC tyranny AND to Kokesh!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 
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