• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

This is why you should CC and not OC

Status
Not open for further replies.

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
this is why you should CC and not OC. tactical advantage. not a lot of people get that concept.


--Moderator Note--

This thread created by moving posts from another thread, where they were deemed to be off topic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
Really? You came all the way to an OC site to say that?

If you were being sarcastic, it would behoove you to so indicate.

where would i come from? i have been here for only a little while but not really active. after catching up on some posts i have figured out why i dont come back much. no im not being sarcastic. explain to me how its not an advantage? have you heard of the term "counter ambush?" or blending in? to be on topic the issue is with they guys wife having an issue with him carrying. if its concealed she wont see it. am i correct or does his wife search him before leaving the house?
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
to be on topic the issue is with they guys wife having an issue with him carrying. if its concealed she wont see it. am i correct or does his wife search him before leaving the house?

All men carry loaded guns.....some of them carry pistols too. Would want my wife to search for it every morning before work...
 

DaveT319

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
274
Location
Eugene, OR
True, she won't see it, but just knowing I have it will annoy her.

As for counter-ambush... Isn't the possible deterrent factor of OC better than being accosted and hoping you can get your weapon unconcealed before they can harm you? And isn't it faster to draw from an exposed holster than to first have to get your clothing out of the way?

I still don't see a clear advantage... (disclaimer: I plan to CC once I get my permit, but not because it's tactically adventageous)
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

Really? You came all the way to an OC site to say that?

If you were being sarcastic, it would behoove you to so indicate.

where would i come from? i have been here for only a little while but not really active. after catching up on some posts i have figured out why i dont come back much. no im not being sarcastic. explain to me how its not an advantage? have you heard of the term "counter ambush?" or blending in? --snipped--
Well having been here a reasonable amount of time and I presume reading + comprehending, then you must understand that there is no tactical advantage to CC. Plain and simple, a person CCing looks just like a disarmed and ready victim. There is not one iota of difference. On that I will give no quarter.

The concept of OC as an effective deterrent to being attacked is well established here - that horse has been thoroughly beaten and see no reason to do so again.
 

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
True, she won't see it, but just knowing I have it will annoy her.

As for counter-ambush... Isn't the possible deterrent factor of OC better than being accosted and hoping you can get your weapon unconcealed before they can harm you? And isn't it faster to draw from an exposed holster than to first have to get your clothing out of the way?

I still don't see a clear advantage... (disclaimer: I plan to CC once I get my permit, but not because it's tactically adventageous)

yeah but wouldn't the last thing you want to do is annoy your wife? i can somewhat agree it COULD be a deterrent. you could also argue cops have died from their own guns. is there eyes in the back of your head? believe me, no one here is a ninja you could get cracked in the back of the head standing in line at wal mart during rush hour.

faster to draw? nope. i can draw just as fast or faster as anyone who has a OC holster. clearing something like a t-shirt and drawing is pretty much one movement so it doesn't add time. in winter i wear a pull over and a t-shirt so nothing changes from summer to winter and its consistent. would a heavy winter coat add an obstacle? yes. you can work around it though.

no advantage? lets say I'm at a bank. its pay day and someone decides to rob it. we will say I'm OCin. robbers bust in and the first person they see is me with my OC rig. think im not going to be a target? if i were to think like a bad guy and I'm dead set on robbing the bank like the guys in the LA shoot out (back in 1993 i think) I'm probably going to get smoke checked. now lets say I'm CCing. i LOOK like a sheep like everyone else. little do they know I'm carrying a loaded gun with 30 plus rounds. i look just like everyone else. that makes me NOT be a target right away. i would have more time to think about my "counter ambush" if i choose to pull my gun. i could pull my gun when they arnt looking (they arnt ninjas either) and i COULD have my gun presented aimed in waiting in a "counter ambush" position. now they have to react. now they are caught off guard.

thats just and example. no advantage? you decide.

i forgot to add. if you are a smart OCer you have some sort of retention on your holster. depending what it is wouldn't that add time as well? would it add anymore time than clearing a t-shirt? in my own findings i see no difference.
 
Last edited:

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
Well having been here a reasonable amount of time and I presume reading + comprehending, then you must understand that there is no tactical advantage to CC. Plain and simple, a person CCing looks just like a disarmed and ready victim. There is not one iota of difference. On that I will give no quarter.

The concept of OC as an effective deterrent to being attacked is well established here - that horse has been thoroughly beaten and see no reason to do so again.


haha do you want to blend in or be a target? why did the corps issue me woodland and desert cammo then? sound like by your logic we should have been issued red gear. you can still blend in but be alert and ready. of course it has been established here because this is a OC site.
 

Gallowmere

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
210
Location
Richmond, VA
haha do you want to blend in or be a target? why did the corps issue me woodland and desert cammo then? sound like by your logic we should have been issued red gear. you can still blend in but be alert and ready. of course it has been established here because this is a OC site.

You actually just proved Grapeshot's point, and you don't even realize it. The reason no one wears brightly colored combat uniforms anymore, is because it made them easily recognizable targets, and made it easier to literally target them, especially at a distance.

Guess who are easily recognizable targets for criminals in day to day life. People who do not appear to be armed. People who appear to be physically weak. People who look like they are not paying attention to their surroundings. I have never once spoken to a person with a criminal past who would consider taking on a visibly armed person (unless they were clearly blowhards who have an "I could kill the world if I wanted" attitude). It's not worth the risk when there are much softer targets around.
 
Last edited:

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
You actually just proved Grapeshot's point, and you don't even realize it. The reason no one wears brightly colored combat uniforms anymore, is because it made them easily recognizable targets, and made it easier to literally target them, especially at a distance.

Guess who are easily recognizable targets for criminals in day to day life. People who do not appear to be armed. People who appear to be physically weak. People who look like they are not paying attention to their surroundings. I have never once spoken to a person with a criminal past who would consider taking on a visibly armed person (unless they were clearly blowhards who have an "I could kill the world if I wanted" attitude). It's not worth the risk when there are much softer targets around.

negative sir. i just blend in and appearing to be something I'm not. who's crapping their pants when all of a sudden the guy who thinks he has you pegged, is now looking down the barrel of your gun? sure i would rather not be a target. but can you guarantee me the OC will deter criminals? is there stats on that? it can't be proven.

my point with the cammo is you are wearing red when you OC. you are in cammo when you CC. like i said, you can blend it but still be alert and ready. having a gun on your hip OCin is like a chick sitting at a bar drinking capt. and coke with a tattoo on her lower back. bullseye!
 
Last edited:

Gallowmere

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
210
Location
Richmond, VA
negative sir. i just blend in and appearing to be something I'm not. who's crapping their pants when all of a sudden the guy who thinks he has you pegged, is now looking down the barrel of your gun? sure i would rather not be a target. but can you guarantee me the OC will deter criminals? is there stats on that? it can't be proven.

my point with the cammo is you are wearing red when you OC. you are in cammo when you CC. like i said, you can blend it but still be alert and ready. having a gun on your hip OCin is like a chick sitting at a bar drinking capt. and coke with a tattoo on her lower back. bullseye!

I find it interesting that you ask for something that you say can't be proven...then follow it up with something that can't be proven.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
yeah but wouldn't the last thing you want to do is annoy your wife? i can somewhat agree it COULD be a deterrent. you could also argue cops have died from their own guns. is there eyes in the back of your head? believe me, no one here is a ninja you could get cracked in the back of the head standing in line at wal mart during rush hour.

faster to draw? nope. i can draw just as fast or faster as anyone who has a OC holster. clearing something like a t-shirt and drawing is pretty much one movement so it doesn't add time. in winter i wear a pull over and a t-shirt so nothing changes from summer to winter and its consistent. would a heavy winter coat add an obstacle? yes. you can work around it though.

no advantage? lets say I'm at a bank. its pay day and someone decides to rob it. we will say I'm OCin. robbers bust in and the first person they see is me with my OC rig. think im not going to be a target? if i were to think like a bad guy and I'm dead set on robbing the bank like the guys in the LA shoot out (back in 1993 i think) I'm probably going to get smoke checked. now lets say I'm CCing. i LOOK like a sheep like everyone else. little do they know I'm carrying a loaded gun with 30 plus rounds. i look just like everyone else. that makes me NOT be a target right away. i would have more time to think about my "counter ambush" if i choose to pull my gun. i could pull my gun when they arnt looking (they arnt ninjas either) and i COULD have my gun presented aimed in waiting in a "counter ambush" position. now they have to react. now they are caught off guard.

thats just and example. no advantage? you decide.

i forgot to add. if you are a smart OCer you have some sort of retention on your holster. depending what it is wouldn't that add time as well? would it add anymore time than clearing a t-shirt? in my own findings i see no difference.

Just as fast from CC? That's not even funny.

Being the first taken out is another of the great OC urban myths. You may choose to surprise the BG who enters with tunnel vision and one thing on his mind = get the money and get out with his life intact. Your scenerio, if and when it ever happens, will result in an extremely low ratio - somewhat like .00001%. Frankly, I prefer my odds to your scare tactics.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/t...cle_511c090a-33c6-534f-9eab-41bc05fd49c8.html
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
negative sir. i just blend in and appearing to be something I'm not. who's crapping their pants when all of a sudden the guy who thinks he has you pegged, is now looking down the barrel of your gun? sure i would rather not be a target. but can you guarantee me the OC will deter criminals? is there stats on that? it can't be proven.

my point with the cammo is you are wearing red when you OC. you are in cammo when you CC. like i said, you can blend it but still be alert and ready. having a gun on your hip OCin is like a chick sitting at a bar drinking capt. and coke with a tattoo on her lower back. bullseye!
OC has been proven to the satisfaction of many as being an effective deterent - read the writing on the wall, sir.

You belabor the point and take on the trappings of a provocateur. Your choice of how you carry is just that - your choice - but you can't seem to leave it there. Suggest you stop while you are ahead.

This is first and foremost a site dedicated to normalizing OC as we go about our everyday lives. Many here have extensive knowledge and experience - don't insult us.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
negative sir. i just blend in and appearing to be something I'm not. who's crapping their pants when all of a sudden the guy who thinks he has you pegged, is now looking down the barrel of your gun? sure i would rather not be a target. but can you guarantee me the OC will deter criminals? is there stats on that? it can't be proven.

my point with the cammo is you are wearing red when you OC. you are in cammo when you CC. like i said, you can blend it but still be alert and ready. having a gun on your hip OCin is like a chick sitting at a bar drinking capt. and coke with a tattoo on her lower back. bullseye!
Well, that certainly explains all the news reports about cops in uniform being mugged all over the country, they're just targets waiting to be hit. No deterrence value at all.

I do suppose though, that there is great comfort in imagining that during a bank robbery where everyone will immediately be commanded to go face down on the floor that a move to lift a cover garment won't be noticed and that someone will be able to draw from cover faster than someone with an already drawn and readied weapon will be able to react. We all tell ourselves things to comfort us in time of great stress.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
negative sir. i just blend in and appearing to be something I'm not. who's crapping their pants when all of a sudden the guy who thinks he has you pegged, is now looking down the barrel of your gun? sure i would rather not be a target. but can you guarantee me the OC will deter criminals? is there stats on that? it can't be proven.

my point with the cammo is you are wearing red when you OC. you are in cammo when you CC. like i said, you can blend it but still be alert and ready. having a gun on your hip OCin is like a chick sitting at a bar drinking capt. and coke with a tattoo on her lower back. bullseye!
Well let take a look at the bold. So YOU pull your gun on somebody you think has you pegged without just cause? Because unless you are justified to use deadly force you cannot legally point the barrel of your gun at someone. And if you have just cause the bad guy ALREADY HAS THE DROP ON YOU.

You reach for your gun because you feel froggy with a LAC that is OCing you probably will become a statistic. This is the reason the Brady bunch site lists so many instances of abuse by concealed carriers but I have not seen one by a open carrier. It is that superman complex that some of the CC crowd has that puts a bad light on carry.
 

b0neZ

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
505
Location
Davis County, Utah
I do find the "ZOMG You'll be the first one shot!" line that gets bandied about, and those that use it in earnest, entertaining. Especially when called to cite, as is customary on this forum.

What can I say? It's a guilty pleasure.
 

g21sfpistol

Banned
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
255
Location
iowa
Well, that certainly explains all the news reports about cops in uniform being mugged all over the country, they're just targets waiting to be hit. No deterrence value at all.

I do suppose though, that there is great comfort in imagining that during a bank robbery where everyone will immediately be commanded to go face down on the floor that a move to lift a cover garment won't be noticed and that someone will be able to draw from cover faster than someone with an already drawn and readied weapon will be able to react. We all tell ourselves things to comfort us in time of great stress.

a few years ago a local cop was cracked in the back of the head by someone trying to take his gun. and there was 2 cops present. so explain that. no where did i say they were being mugged all around the country. i simply stated it does happen.

you are saying my speculating does nothing but bring me comfort while you are speculating in the same sentence. unless they have someone posted on every individual in the bank they end up on the reaction end. they can watch you in a group but action is faster than reaction.split seconds can mean life and death and when i have the plan in my head to draw he does not know what I'm thinking. IF you have taken any credible training in self defense you would have been told action IS faster then reaction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top