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ACLU and Gun Rights

eye95

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The Donkey wrote:
National ACLU does not set policy for individual chapters.

Best way to get 2A on the ACLU agenda is to run 2A supporters for local ACLU Boards.
Really? Didn't someone post here about how the National ACLU snatched a local charter away?

I see the ACLU as a political movement, not a liberty movement. The above action was a power play. It was a political move. Liberty movements don't exercise power over each other. That's kind of antithetical to Liberty.
 

CarryOpen

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insane.kangaroo wrote:
CarryOpen wrote:
Is suing Arizona for a law that violates civil rights somehow not in line with our goals?
The illegal immigrant laws in Arizona don't violate civil rights. Guess what, Federal law already states immigrants must carry their government issued papers.

I wrote a few words on the topic: http://insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com/58680.html

If you knew anything about the law, you'd see the difference makes illegal immigration and support of illegal immigrants an extremely severe crime.

I'm Hispanic, and I support Arizona.
I do know a little about the law. I also got to see the little clip where AZ LE was asked "what if the 'suspect' doesn't produce paperwork?" and he answered that they would find something else to charge them with. I believe that civil rights will be violated with this law, the ACLU seems to agree with me. The courts will have the final say.
 

The Donkey

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eye95 wrote:
The Donkey wrote:
National ACLU does not set policy for individual chapters.

Best way to get 2A on the ACLU agenda is to run 2A supporters for local ACLU Boards.
Really? Didn't someone post here about how the National ACLU snatched a local charter away?

I see the ACLU as a political movement, not a liberty movement. The above action was a power play. It was a political move. Liberty movements don't exercise power over each other. That's kind of antithetical to Liberty.
ACLU's South Carolina Chapter is alive and well.

Can't find anything on the net about a controversy over decertifying the chapter.

Perhaps somebody with more knowledge can provide a link.
 

david.ross

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CarryOpen,

You just made the assumption LE could charge them if a person didn't produce paperwork. I'm Hispanic and I've zero fear of going to Arizona walking around without any ID. A person would have a reasonable suspicion or commit a crime, LE can't just go up to people asking for papers. AZ does have a stop and id law, have something to say about the law as well?
 

centsi

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The Donkey wrote:
1. As some posts acknolwedge, ACLU is not a monolithic organization: what they do is largely a function of the Boards of individual chapters.
+1

It's hard to paint such a large organization with a broad brush. I think most gun owners view the ACLU anti-RKBA, but perhaps that is more a reflection of the nation organization than local chapters, and perhaps their position is changing. Here's an example of the ACLU going to bat for one of our OCers in Colorado: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum13/28597.html
 

flagellum

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I going to have to disagree and say that the ACLU is very much a liberty movement. Defending Nazi's and NAMBLA certainly isn't going to win any political points. It seems that they stand on principle.

The official position on 2A seems neutral. Their wording isn't, but their actions are.

As far as Arizona, I don't really agree. I tend to lean toward the position of Judge Napolitano.
 

flagellum

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insane.kangaroo wrote:
CarryOpen,

You just made the assumption LE could charge them if a person didn't produce paperwork. I'm Hispanic and I've zero fear of going to Arizona walking around without any ID. A person would have a reasonable suspicion or commit a crime, LE can't just go up to people asking for papers. AZ does have a stop and id law, have something to say about the law as well?
I'm Hispanic too, but lets be honest, neither of us look that Mexican(especially big blue furry ones).:lol:
 

CarryOpen

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insane.kangaroo wrote:
CarryOpen,

You just made the assumption LE could charge them if a person didn't produce paperwork. I'm Hispanic and I've zero fear of going to Arizona walking around without any ID. A person would have a reasonable suspicion or commit a crime, LE can't just go up to people asking for papers. AZ does have a stop and id law, have something to say about the law as well?
It's a reasonable assumption if LE says they are going to do exactly that.
 

david.ross

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LEOs can talk all they want, ultimately they must follow the law like everyone else. If a LEO steps outside of the law, they end up becoming a liability to a police department when they infringe on someone's rights.
 

eye95

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insane.kangaroo wrote:
LEOs can talk all they want, ultimately they must follow the law like everyone else. If a LEO steps outside of the law, they end up becoming a liability to a police department when they infringe on someone's rights.
And, any LEOs who want to violate people's rights will do so regardless that this new law also restricts them. It'll be just another law that he is breaking.

And, folks, make no mistake about it: If a LEO walks up to a man just because he "looks" or "sounds" like an illegal alien and says, "Papers, please," he will be violating the new Arizonan law!
 

Pace

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I'm going to say it once, and you can argue with me.

I am a 100% supporter of the ACLU even though I disagree with their national 2A stance.

Why? Because in general they defend everyone's rights, even if we disagree with them.

You need to forget your personal opinions and realize that sometimes you need to defend, and we need those to defend, even those we disagree with. The worse society that exists is that which only defends and protects the rights of those opinions we agree.

The ACLU is important as a counter-balance to anyone who would force a society to have one opinion. The ACLU does not claim to agree with the people they defend, but defends them for the very specific reason that they have a right to disagree.

Those who feel the ACLU is dangerous are most likely the most dangerous people. They have their opinion and they believe that we need to agree with them, and their viewpoint to the death.
 

eye95

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And, I shall say this once (once again, actually; I said it earlier in this thread): The ACLU, in defending the rights of some, have abridged the rights of others. I find that the sides of the arguments that they choose, when rights conflict, are politically motivated. I don't see them as the altruistic defender of everyone's rights. I see them as a bunch of liberal lawyers, defending leftist causes.

The lone fact that they are not at the forefront of defending our RKBA should be ample proof (albeit, not the only proof) that they are politically, not altruistically, motivated.
 

Tomahawk

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Hunterdave wrote:
They were founded by a communist to interject communist ideas into
the American justice system!

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45959
World Nut Daily?
rofl5.gif
hahaha.gif
 

Hunterdave

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The Donkey

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Hunterdave wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
Hunterdave wrote:
They were founded by a communist to interject communist ideas into
the American justice system!

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45959
World Nut Daily?
rofl5.gif
hahaha.gif
Ok, try this Free Republic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1293149/posts

You shouldn't be laughing, this is really who these people are!!!!!!!!:banghead:
"Romans 1:28 says God 'gave them over' to a reprobate mind.



2nd Thessalonians says that the antichrist (that 'Wicked' v.2:8) would be revealed after the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit is 'taken out of the way' (v.7) after which, Paul writes, "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie," with the ultimate result that, "they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (v. 12)



The ACLU exists, openly and it all its glory, for the express purpose of propagating the lie that God does not exist, and therefore the worship of God is a crime, even though, apart from God, there is no guarantor of the civil liberties the ACLU claims to protect.



Do you follow? The 'reprobate mind' suffering from the 'strong delusion'.



It is here, it is now and it is in your face. And it will continue to get worse.



Until He comes."

My reprobate mind reels!
 

CarryOpen

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I'm still waiting to see how any of these things have to do with the ACLU stance on OC or RKBA.
 
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