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CA6: Seizing ptf out of her home for a psych eval without PC [drunken gun cleaning] stated claim and overcame QI. John Wesley Hall

Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
351
[ ... ]It is undoubtedly dangerous for a person to clean her gun while drinking an excessive amount of alcohol, and if Rudolph had been doing that when the officers arrived, then they would have probable cause to believe that Rudolph was a danger to herself. But everyone in this case was concerned only about the gun, which had been taken away from Rudolph.[ ... ]
 

FreedomVA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
529
Location
FreedomVA
Good news...knock down some of the LEO ego's then maybe they will won't feel so brazen to violate our rights when we OC in public
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,055
Location
White Oak Plantation
Case by case basis...some cops dislike armed citizens. Many states are educating their cops to follow the law where OC is concerned...to save money if nothing else.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,777
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
By the way, read the dissenting opinion. "Courts must remember that law enforcement officers must protect the public in an uncertain and dangerous world, not the cold crucible of the courtroom."

When did her private affairs become a public matter.
 

FreedomVA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
529
Location
FreedomVA
By the way, read the dissenting opinion. "Courts must remember that law enforcement officers must protect the public in an uncertain and dangerous world, not the cold crucible of the courtroom."

When did her private affairs become a public matter.
When QI was put in place, illegally
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,298
Location
SE, WI
Case by case basis...some cops dislike armed citizens. Many states are educating their cops to follow the law where OC is concerned...to save money if nothing else.
"Totality of the circumstances..." - former Chief Noble Wray, Madison, WI
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,077
Location
here nc
Subject awoken “She was asleep, so she did not answer.” While the officers banging on doors/windows. [Tough for any individual to inflict self-harm when asleep]

Once awaken, officers entered without permission!

“The record does not indicate that the officers otherwise asked Rudolph whether she attempted to harm herself without the gun (perhaps with a knife or pills), why she did not answer the door, why her son might have been concerned about her, or whether she had kids in the house, nor did they ask if they could breathalyze her. Indeed, the record is devoid of any mention from the officers that they thought Rudolph might overdose on drugs or have drunk alcohol to the point of risking death.

The officers thus apparently executed this mental-health seizure because they determined that Rudolph’s intoxication alone provided support for her ex-husband’s alleged assertion that she was suicidal. See, e.g., R. 54-4 (Atkinson Dep.) (Pg. ID 674). That is an unreasonable logical leap.

Once the officers arrived, however, they were apparently there for the sole purpose of executing a mental-health seizure (not to determine whether she was going to harm herself), and there are no circumstances that could have changed their decision to seize Rudolph.

“Finally, the officers were under no legal duty to intervene...”

Totality of circumstances...ya...hope she and her family enjoy the proceeds.
 

FreedomVA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
529
Location
FreedomVA
Subject awoken “She was asleep, so she did not answer.” While the officers banging on doors/windows. [Tough for any individual to inflict self-harm when asleep]

Once awaken, officers entered without permission!

“The record does not indicate that the officers otherwise asked Rudolph whether she attempted to harm herself without the gun (perhaps with a knife or pills), why she did not answer the door, why her son might have been concerned about her, or whether she had kids in the house, nor did they ask if they could breathalyze her. Indeed, the record is devoid of any mention from the officers that they thought Rudolph might overdose on drugs or have drunk alcohol to the point of risking death.

The officers thus apparently executed this mental-health seizure because they determined that Rudolph’s intoxication alone provided support for her ex-husband’s alleged assertion that she was suicidal. See, e.g., R. 54-4 (Atkinson Dep.) (Pg. ID 674). That is an unreasonable logical leap.

Once the officers arrived, however, they were apparently there for the sole purpose of executing a mental-health seizure (not to determine whether she was going to harm herself), and there are no circumstances that could have changed their decision to seize Rudolph.

“Finally, the officers were under no legal duty to intervene...”

Totality of circumstances...ya...hope she and her family enjoy the proceeds.
QI...takes effect
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,777
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I gave my wife the background portion of the case to read. Her response, that's what you get with Red Flag laws. I told her it didn't happen under Red Flag. The cops violated her rights. Her reply - Oh, so they would get away with it if they had a Red Flag law, wouldn't they. I said yes they would.
 
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