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g21sfpistol

Banned
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Apr 21, 2013
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255
Location
iowa
"Harder" is a relative term.

Not knowing who is carrying is harder for the criminal than knowing all are unarmed, yes. No one can dispute this.

What you are ignoring is that knowing a certain individual is armed is harder for the criminal to pick that person out of a crowd of only potentially armed victims.

A person is safer if there are known to be armed people around him.

The visibly armed person is the safest, however.
i have heard OCers state, that when they OC it goes unnoticed by a lot out in public. what if it goes unnoticed by the criminal? or your child or wife is blocking view of your gun? he comes up point his gun or knife at you THEN notices you have it. he will probably not take his eyes off you at this point. he may not let you make a single move. he may freak and shoot you. if you CC he wont take much notice to you at first. you apprear to be unarmed. it may give you that moment where he looks around quick to see who is looking. thats just enough time to draw and present, or "react" and catch them by surprise. this is assuming you would react the same if you were OCing as well. i dont want to be accused of being a mass murder again. my point is i dont want to bank on my chances of my gun being the deterant because he/she MIGHT see my gun.

this is a tad off this guys topic, but a lot will go from OC to CC if they know they will be in large crowds. let me ask this. if you are OCing knowing it wont be crowded, what if you are out later then expected and it becomes crowded? ive had that happen going on shooping sprees with the wife. granted in CCing. but what if you get caught in that situation? and why switch? why not keep it consistant?
 

MAC702

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
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6,337
Location
Nevada
i have heard OCers state, that when they OC it goes unnoticed by a lot out in public. what if it goes unnoticed by the criminal? or your child or wife is blocking view of your gun? he comes up point his gun or knife at you THEN notices you have it. he will probably not take his eyes off you at this point. he may not let you make a single move. he may freak and shoot you. If you CC he wont take much notice to you at first. you appear to be unarmed. it may give you that moment where he looks around quick to see who is looking. thats just enough time to draw and present, or "react" and catch them by surprise. this is assuming you would react the same if you were OCing as well. i dont want to be accused of being a mass murder again. my point is i don't want to bank on my chances of my gun being the deterrent because he/she MIGHT see my gun.

this is a tad off this guys topic, but a lot will go from OC to CC if they know they will be in large crowds. let me ask this. if you are OCing knowing it wont be crowded, what if you are out later then expected and it becomes crowded? I've had that happen going on shopping sprees with the wife. granted in CCing. but what if you get caught in that situation? and why switch? why not keep it consistant?
If you worry about this, you should be buying alien abduction insurance, too.

Dude, seriously, there's only so many things you can stop. Eventually, you also have to just go on with life.

The fact remains that OC is statistically the safest of all carrying going on right now.

I would wager most OC'ers do not change for "crowds." We are far more likely to change to CC because of the weather or because of applicable laws or policies of where we are going.
 
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solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,586
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here nc
unfortunately i also was posting when both threads were locked down...

however, you seem to forget a basic concept which i noticed only one other forum subscriber mentioned...situational awareness...

as i posted in another thread yesterday...

quote: sorry if i was CC'g and the bad guy is standing in visual sight of me, oh say five feet of me with a firearm, no way in hell would i pull my CC'd firearm like johnny hero, since the chance to spook the bad guy to shoot anybody, myself included is now almost 100%.

nope, my scenario mentality is i stand there like the other good kind folk and act scared and look stupid. Heaven only knows what would occur if the bad guy gets me out of his field of vision...hummmm!!!

now OC'g and the bad guy got that close with a firearm w/o my seeing them...shame on me and i deserve what ever is about to occur...
unquote

with the given and proven parameters of SAwareness, OC' is the deterrent and my self protection as it is meant to be. Remember, while i have the legal right in NC to defend others...it isn't going to happen!! now if the pistol is pointing towards myself or loved ones, i will defend to the exclusion to everyone else.

ipse
 
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ATM

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
361
Location
Indiana, USA
Civil argument is fine, but if your tactic remains skipping from premise to premise and continually narrowing down your hypothetical scenarios until you arrive at something that bears some limited relevance to your position, the minor topic you finally manage to "win" will have been at the cost of the overall argument you came here seeking.

So I'll just ask, did you come here to learn why others don't esteem the act of concealing their sidearm as highly as you, or are you actually attempting to convince them otherwise?

Either way, I did find it amusing that although a person may have the same primary reason for carrying as you, you somehow consider it a fault if that is not their only reason for carrying. Might want to consider your logic there before someone else follows up on it. :lol:
 

b0neZ

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
505
Location
Davis County, Utah
Not too long ago I was having quite a (I thought) pleasant conversation with someone, until they brought up the topic of firearms.

Somehow the convo wound around to civilians who carry.

They claimed that they would absolutely and immediately gather anyone they were with and leave a place where they saw someone without a badge/uniform carrying a holstered handgun.

Upon hearing that, I asked them about those who carried concealed, as there are many more of them than those who carry openly. Their response was basically that that was fine, as long as she didn't know about it being there.

It was obvious then that she feared an inanimate object and not anyone in particular, so I suggested she spend some time at least in a gun store/show to show her what she fears really won't harm her.

If she lived closer I would've invited her shooting at some point.
 

RugarRev

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
61
Location
Des Moines
This again? OP, continuing to flog a dead horse is most unbecoming. For the sake of humanity...stop. Do it for the children.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Árida Zona
i have heard OCers state, that when they OC it goes unnoticed by a lot out in public. what if it goes unnoticed by the criminal? or your child or wife is blocking view of your gun? he comes up point his gun or knife at you THEN notices you have it. he will probably not take his eyes off you at this point. he may not let you make a single move. he may freak and shoot you. if you CC he wont take much notice to you at first. you apprear to be unarmed. it may give you that moment where he looks around quick to see who is looking. thats just enough time to draw and present, or "react" and catch them by surprise. this is assuming you would react the same if you were OCing as well. i dont want to be accused of being a mass murder again. my point is i dont want to bank on my chances of my gun being the deterant because he/she MIGHT see my gun.
Several instances brought up on these threads where the criminal simply runs away; again, they do not benefit from extended hiests/attacks since it increases the likelihood of their arrest as it gives LEOs time to arrive, and in the case of a firefight with armed citizens or armed LEOs (collectively termed "armed resistance"), also increases the chances of injury or death. VIOLENT CRIMINALS ARE PREDATORS OF OPPORTUNITY, NOT SOLDIERS (though I will concede that some exceptions do occur sparingly).

this is a tad off this guys topic, but a lot will go from OC to CC if they know they will be in large crowds. let me ask this. if you are OCing knowing it wont be crowded, what if you are out later then expected and it becomes crowded? ive had that happen going on shooping sprees with the wife. granted in CCing. but what if you get caught in that situation? and why switch? why not keep it consistant?
This I can answer from experience. I've OCed at such highly-crowded Tucson events as the "All Souls Procession" (only the procession and closing festival, I'm afraid, since I was tied up in other things during the other events that weekend) and three of the four days of the nationally renown folk festival "Tucson, Meet Yourself" (some digging will reveal that although the modern title omits the comma, it was there originally and is more "grammatically correct", but I digress).

I carried both day and night times, in VERY crowded areas at both of these events. Situational Awareness, a hip holster with a forward cant, and a physical reserve of calories helped me know where my 1911 was at all times without the need to look at it.

Information about these events, including their LARGE attendance and crowded nature, can be found on a Wikipedia page dedicated towards highlighting some of the quirks which make Tucson worth defending from statists (in my opinion, at least): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson,_Arizona


OC accomplishes the same thing as CC, SD. OCing also does that which CC can not do, is not intended to do, educate, which a fairly famous member here has stated:

We desensitize them to OC, and they realize that armed Law-Abiding Citizens are just that, ARMED Law-Abiding Citizens. - Rusty Young Man (March 2014)

Passing out flyers is a worthy work. But, I do not dedicate my energies to spreading "the word" by flyer. Me OCing, in my view, accomplishes the same thing as passing out flyers, yet far less intrusive.
I've heard that being famous and being in-famous are two different perceptions of the same thing. Don't know what I did to deserve it.:uhoh::p
 
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Bigbossman90

New member
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Jul 27, 2013
Messages
9
Location
United States
but in order to start changing things is to change the people who are scared of guns and think "guns are bad" because they are the opposition. they will be harder to sway. a person openly carrying the very thing they fear, i dont believe, will help sway their decistion. people who are on the fence may be easier.
There are some people that, no matter what you say or do, will oppose anything that has to do with any kind of firearm. These are not the people to be swayed, they are a lost cause. Those people that are "on the fence" as you say will look at you in a completely different light than the first category.

i have heard OCers state, that when they OC it goes unnoticed by a lot out in public. what if it goes unnoticed by the criminal? or your child or wife is blocking view of your gun? he comes up point his gun or knife at you THEN notices you have it. he will probably not take his eyes off you at this point. he may not let you make a single move. he may freak and shoot you. if you CC he wont take much notice to you at first. you apprear to be unarmed. it may give you that moment where he looks around quick to see who is looking. thats just enough time to draw and present, or "react" and catch them by surprise. this is assuming you would react the same if you were OCing as well. i dont want to be accused of being a mass murder again. my point is i dont want to bank on my chances of my gun being the deterant because he/she MIGHT see my gun.
Now you're grasping at straws, stop grasping at straws.
 

Bigbossman90

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
9
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United States
and debate.
the only people who insist their belief is the only "truth" are a few on here. not once have i said "you should carry concealed period end of story" i have made statments for it and why i think it should be done. but thats nothing more than my statments, just like a OCer would state "i OC because..." i let people say what they want to say without insulting them or getting mad. i cant reply to their comments like they reply to mine? one claimed i wanted to harm people. even though i dont. yet they called me the troll and i got warned for breaking rule 16? isnt stating "i want to harm people" breaking rule 16 when i have made no such egregious claim? im pretty sure im on the good guy team. ive helped make elections happen in the middle east and offered aid. im pretty sure im somewhere on the "good guy side" ive been open minded. i even agreed with some people. but its hard to have a conversation when the clique of the fourm get offended and trolls to try to drive you away. one of them is a moderator so they block you or close down a thread because THEY dont agree with you, even though you werent even trying to talk with them to begin with.
The fact your thread was called "This is why you should CC and not OC" reaaaally begs to differ.
 

ATM

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
361
Location
Indiana, USA
I went back and read through the closed thread where this started. It is obvious that g21sfpistol was not prepared to even discuss the topic, let alone debate it here, yet jumped in regardless with the most basic of assumptions and opinions, hopping from one to the next as they were challenged and refuted.

How common and uneventful. Why does one seek to challenge a point without even a cursory understanding of the subject matter beyond their own limited perspective? :confused:
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
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Messages
11,912
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North Carolina
I went back and read through the closed thread where this started. It is obvious that g21sfpistol was not prepared to even discuss the topic, let alone debate it here, yet jumped in regardless with the most basic of assumptions and opinions, hopping from one to the next as they were challenged and refuted.

How common and uneventful. Why does one seek to challenge a point without even a cursory understanding of the subject matter beyond their own limited perspective? :confused:
Because Rob Pincus says so, and is running for a NRA seat. Some of G21's comments come directly from Pincus. Somehow I guess Pincus sees OC as a threat to his livelyhood and politics of concealed carry. So he puts out lies to stir his base up, and every so often one of them makes it here.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Because Rob Pincus says so, and is running for a NRA seat. Some of G21's comments come directly from Pincus. Somehow I guess Pincus sees OC as a threat to his livelihood and politics of concealed carry. So he puts out lies to stir his base up, and every so often one of them makes it here.
An agent provocateur perhaps?
 

Rusty Young Man

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Árida Zona
Because Rob Pincus says so, and is running for a NRA seat. Some of G21's comments come directly from Pincus. Somehow I guess Pincus sees OC as a threat to his livelyhood and politics of concealed carry. So he puts out lies to stir his base up, and every so often one of them makes it here.
Follow the green-back road.
Open Carry isn't profitable if no CHP/CCW/whatever-acronym-your-area-uses is required.
Constitutional Carry is even LESS profitable.
 
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Sir Diealotz

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
247
Location
Central Ky
I would wager most OC'ers do not change for "crowds." We are far more likely to change to CC because of the weather or because of applicable laws or policies of where we are going.
^ This
 

Gallowmere

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Feb 23, 2014
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Richmond, VA
haha. this is why people think gun owners are crazy. man. classic.
No, people think gun owners are crazy because...christ man, have you not looked at YouTube lately? There are derps out there making both sides of this conversation look reeeeeaally bad. Of course, only the "darharharhar look at that moron" videos get much play. ;)
 

g21sfpistol

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Apr 21, 2013
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Location
iowa
No, people think gun owners are crazy because...christ man, have you not looked at YouTube lately? There are derps out there making both sides of this conversation look reeeeeaally bad. Of course, only the "darharharhar look at that moron" videos get much play. ;)
yes. i wouldn't doubt if some of them are on here
 
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