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Dayton public transit (RTA) has a problem with **lawfully carried firearms**

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
I think I need to take a trip to Dayton and OC on the buses there. I'm sure the RTA would love the press for kicking a physically disabled veteran to the curb as they violate state law. I tend to attract reporters like flies on stink.
Anticipate that the line to board will not be short. :)

Digital cams recommended.
 

BB62

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I think I need to take a trip to Dayton and OC on the buses there. I'm sure the RTA would love the press for kicking a physically disabled veteran to the curb as they violate state law. I tend to attract reporters like flies on stink.
Be forewarned: I think the corruption in Dayton goes pretty deep. They have a lot invested in their charade, a charade as I understand it that has seen more than 1,000 trespassing citations issued during the past year alone - ON PUBLIC PROPERTY.

You know how to reach me. I suggest you call and be fully apprised of the situation as I know it before going it alone - but of course that's your call.
 

Animalou812

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Aug 31, 2014
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66
Location
Erlanger, Kentucky
I think I need to take a trip to Dayton and OC on the buses there. I'm sure the RTA would love the press for kicking a physically disabled veteran to the curb as they violate state law. I tend to attract reporters like flies on stink.

Just put the word out and you will have plenty of support



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BB62

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Another records request submitted

Since I don't know how to/can't attach documents, here is a link to the "Corner of Chaos" report mentioned in item "B": http://www.popcenter.org/library/awards/goldstein/2010/10-20(F).pdf

If anyone can host the Deed pdf file, let me know and I will provide it. The parcels listed on the deed are R72 00507 0073 through 0083, then 0085 through 0090. The deed is available on the Montgomery County Auditor's site.

**********

RECORDS REQUEST

Below, please consider the term “RTA” to mean “RTA”, “Greater Dayton Regional Transit Authority”, “Miami Valley Regional Transit Authority”, “Dayton RTA”, “Regional Transit Authority” or similar nomenclature.

The following attachments and link are referred to in, or are relevant to, this records request:

A) A pdf of the 2008 deed transferring all or part of the Wright Stop Plaza/Wright Transit Stop real estate (“property”) from the City of Dayton to the RTA, both of which, as noted in the deed, are political subdivisions of the State of Ohio. The same pdf contains a Development Agreement and two amendments to the Agreement.

On page 9 of the above described pdf, item G, “Ownership” says in part “Further, the deed shall provide that in the event the RTA (1) seeks to convey the Site or any portion thereof or interest therein to any third party or (2) vacates, abandons or ceases to use the Site for the purposes stated in this Agreement, then the City shall have the right to reenter and take possession of the Site and to terminate and revest in the City the estate conveyed by the deed from the City to the RTA.”

B) A pdf of the “Corner of Chaos” report, which on page 3, item 1(a) says (in reference to the Wright Stop Plaza); “Moved the venue from public domain to private property controlled by RTA”. (my bold)

C) A link to a December 2010 article in the e-newsletter of the COPS Office of the US Department of Justice, written by Dayton PD Lt. Larry Faulkner (one of the co-authors of the “Corner of Chaos” report), entitled Dayton Brings Order to “Corner of Chaos”. The article says in part:

“…Some of the most successful pieces of the new plan included:

- Moving the bus hub from the public street into a privately controlled environment, known as the Wright Stop Plaza;”

https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/December_2010/Success-in-Dayton.asp


Under Ohio’s open records/Sunshine laws, please provide, for the period 12/1/2006 to 12/31/2011:

1) Electronic copies of all records wherein RTA discussed, sought, attempted to convey, or conveyed/transferred the Wright Stop Plaza real property, any portion thereof, or interest therein to any third party.

2) Electronic copies of all records wherein RTA discussed, sought, attempted, or actually vacated, abandoned, or ceased to use the Wright Stop Plaza for the purposes stated in the Development Agreement or its amendments.

3) Electronic copies of all records relevant to and/or documenting the conversion process of the Wright Stop Plaza real property to (as referenced in the “Corner of Chaos” report) “private property controlled by RTA”.

4) If no records exist in response to item #3 above, please cite the statutory authority or case law describing the process used or method relied upon by RTA to convert real public property to “private property controlled by RTA”.

5) Electronic copies of all records listing other real public property (ies) converted to or designated as private property controlled by RTA. If such a request is considered burdensome, simply acknowledge that other private property controlled by RTA exists.


Above, the term “private property controlled by RTA” should not be considered a limiting term. Regardless of the term(s) used, the records that are sought are those relevant to and/or documenting the re-designation of public property as private property.



Cordially,
me


http://www.mcrealestate.org/Main/Home.aspx (Montgomery County Auditor)
 

Whitney

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Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
"Corner of Chaos"

The aforementioned article {https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/December_2010/Success-in-Dayton.asp} is very telling. It seems the "perception" of the area by the "uninformed public" is/was generally recognized as unsafe, because it made them feel unsafe.

I believe you may be on to something bigger than simple failure to follow established law.

>>>>>snipped from article<<<<<
Many came to perceive the entire downtown area as unsafe because of the media coverage of RTA hub disturbances. This perception fueled even more television and print media coverage, with the reporters frequently asking uninformed citizens, “Do you feel safe in downtown Dayton?

...................
All in the name of "safety"...... and for the kids of course.

I also acknowledge every major metropolitan city today has these same problems to differing degrees.

~Whitney
 

BB62

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The aforementioned article {https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/December_2010/Success-in-Dayton.asp} is very telling. It seems the "perception" of the area by the "uninformed public" is/was generally recognized as unsafe, because it made them feel unsafe.

I believe you may be on to something bigger than simple failure to follow established law.

>>>>>snipped from article<<<<<
Many came to perceive the entire downtown area as unsafe because of the media coverage of RTA hub disturbances. This perception fueled even more television and print media coverage, with the reporters frequently asking uninformed citizens, “Do you feel safe in downtown Dayton?

...................
All in the name of "safety"...... and for the kids of course.

I also acknowledge every major metropolitan city today has these same problems to differing degrees.

~Whitney
Oh, I'm well aware of RTA's claimed rationale for the "private property" designation. However, RTA's failure to follow Ohio law, in the form of ORC 9.68, precedes their willingness to commit fraud upon the public (by posting said public property as private).

Evidently it's inconsequential that RTA's various "solutions" (including pre-approval of video or still recording on their "private property") might violate the rights of citizenry. :uhoh:

ORC 9.68: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/gp9.68
 

BB62

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Have you tried to pull their property tax records? Since they claim to be private property, they must have paid property tax. If they haven't done so, what is their reason/excuse for being exempt from those taxes? It would be very embarrassing to them, if while claiming to be private property, they have taken an exemption from property taxes, claiming to be government property. The same might be true of their "non-profit" business status, if they have it. The Ohio Secretary of State's office might be able to give you lots of information on their corporate tax status and NGO status. Are they just lying to the public about being "private property" or are they illegally withholding tax money from the state, too? If it is the latter, how many years have they been doing it? How much money is involved? If there is anything even slightly amiss with their tax records, they might want to stop this discussion right away and prevent any further digging into their past transactions?
From my prior post regarding the records request (underline for emphasis):

... If anyone can host the Deed pdf file, let me know and I will provide it. The parcels listed on the deed are R72 00507 0073 through 0083, then 0085 through 0090. The deed is available on the Montgomery County Auditor's site. ...

and


IOW, yep, I'm all over it! :cool:

Thank you.
 

docachna

Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
58
Location
suburban Nashville TN
1000 trespassing citations ?

Be forewarned: I think the corruption in Dayton goes pretty deep. They have a lot invested in their charade, a charade as I understand it that has seen more than 1,000 trespassing citations issued during the past year alone - ON PUBLIC PROPERTY.

QUOTE]

Well, you just hit the mother lode, right there. And I have to admit, it never even occurred to me.

They have trucks full of dirty laundry to hide. Admitting they are a public entity, and that the complex is public property, would open the floodgates to hundreds of claims of improper arrest. All you need is one urban yute who was cited/arrested, and the word's out, my friends. Bunches and bunches of folks coming forward with PROOF of the City of Dayton knowingly promoting a policy to arrest "trespassers" on public property. And starving lawyers, ready to take on the City in a noble cause.............:lol:

As I've noted on another forum, what struck me immediately was the fact that they are even entertaining an Open Records/Sunshine Law request. If they're truly a private entity, the response would have been short and sweet - "We are a private entity, not a governmental entity, and we're not subject to Open Records requirements. Have a great day !". Instead, they're (admittedly) spending hours and hours responding to such requests.

As to the real estate itself, the information I've seen seems to be pretty clear that it is NOT private, but I'll wait until everything is in the barn. However, I just don't see it.

There is MAJOR butt-puckering going on in City Hall right now, trying to figure out a way out of this. I'm not sure I see one for them. If they've really been treating that complex as private, and "enforcing" trespassing laws........well, I'm reminded of Mel Brooks in "Blazing Saddles":

[video=youtube;uTmfwklFM-M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTmfwklFM-M[/video]
 

color of law

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Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!

It is just a matter of time. I have been using FOIA and open record requests for over 15 years. And one of the best responses, "we have no records responsive to your request", can be a death knell to an government agency.
 

BB62

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Brief update

A few more records requests have been sent to the RTA, and some responses have been forthcoming. Mark Donaghy, the CEO, is apparently slow-walking the ones that hit the hardest, like "Tell me all about your 'private property controlled by RTA' hat trick."

I don't know whether the Board of Trustees is in involved, but I believe that Mr. Donaghy knows that his subterfuge and blatant dismissal of Ohio law is living on borrowed time.

For now, fellow gun owners and those who value civil rights - be patient. More will be posted as available and appropriate.
 

Sigger

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Apr 16, 2010
Messages
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Location
Cincinnati (Springfield Township), Ohio, USA
BB62 - Sorry to be such a late-comer to the discussion. If you'd like to send me documents by email, I can host them on a public-facing web server and provide the links to the docs to be published here. Alternatively, call or text me and I'll give you the email address.
 

Basicblack

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Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
5
Location
Dayton,ohio
Dayton RTA OC

Today I rode the Dayton RTA bus 2 at 11:35am to the downtown Dayton hub ( I arrived at 11:51am) and I waited for bus 19 to come at 12:35pm. During the wait for the bus 19 I walked up and down the area getting looks from people as I did. At one point I set on a bench for about 15 mins. The police out there did come out to their cars one stared right at me the other had his back turned and was talking to someone on his radio. They eventually walked away nothing said to me by anyone. I got on 19 when it came and rode it out to the Krogers. I'm willing to say the drivers probably didn't notice but 45 mins standing at the hub downtown I would be surprised if no one noticed from the RTA.

I'm thinking I may do this a couple more days this week.
 

color of law

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Today I rode the Dayton RTA bus 2 at 11:35am to the downtown Dayton hub ( I arrived at 11:51am) and I waited for bus 19 to come at 12:35pm. During the wait for the bus 19 I walked up and down the area getting looks from people as I did. At one point I set on a bench for about 15 mins. The police out there did come out to their cars one stared right at me the other had his back turned and was talking to someone on his radio. They eventually walked away nothing said to me by anyone. I got on 19 when it came and rode it out to the Krogers. I'm willing to say the drivers probably didn't notice but 45 mins standing at the hub downtown I would be surprised if no one noticed from the RTA.

I'm thinking I may do this a couple more days this week.
Welcome aboard.

Did you check to see if the private property signs are still posted?

Lets see what happens.
 

BB62

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Today I rode the Dayton RTA bus 2 at 11:35am to the downtown Dayton hub ( I arrived at 11:51am) and I waited for bus 19 to come at 12:35pm. During the wait for the bus 19 I walked up and down the area getting looks from people as I did. At one point I set on a bench for about 15 mins. The police out there did come out to their cars one stared right at me the other had his back turned and was talking to someone on his radio. They eventually walked away nothing said to me by anyone. I got on 19 when it came and rode it out to the Krogers. I'm willing to say the drivers probably didn't notice but 45 mins standing at the hub downtown I would be surprised if no one noticed from the RTA.

I'm thinking I may do this a couple more days this week.
Okay, so you were at the downtown transit hub (Wright Transit Stop) today.

Just exactly what about you is it that you think people would/would not notice? Are you especially ugly or good looking?

Consider me puzzled.

Please elaborate on your appearance, and thanks in advance.
 

BB62

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Or I can do the same...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Thanks to both you and Sigger.

I've been working on some other things, and will be away from my computer for most of the balance of the week. I'll be back in touch with one of you when I'm able.

Thanks again.
 

Grapeshot

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Basicblack's post doesn't make any sense unless he was carrying a gun and carrying a gun under these circumstances wouldn't make any sense unless it was openly carried for all to see. I guess that he was doing these things, but we don't know for sure because he never mentions a word about guns in his post. If I were carrying a gun in a posted gunfree zone, I would be sure to include that fact in my post.

Assuming that a gun was openly carried, I applaud this activity. This is the way to get things done and get this resolved quickly. Make them enforce their illegal policy or back down and admit that they can't enforce it. Make them look foolish and impotent or make them dig themselves deeper into the abyss.

I'd really like to know if, in fact, a gun was carried. If it was, what make and model, was it OC? where on his body it was carried, IWB or OWB, left hand, right hand, small of the back, appendix carry, shoulder holster, ankle holster? What was he wearing? Black shirt with glock, where nobody would see it or white shirt with black Springfield 1911 where it couldn't be missed. As with all things, the devil is in the details.
Indeed - Is a purdy gun purdy if no one sees it?
 

color of law

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Details, details, details.......

Pictures, pictures, pictures.......

Basicblack usually requires the wearing white pearls.

42741c176025d6136f1327bae316fd92.jpg


I bet not.......
 
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