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Do you carry your 1911 in "condition 0?"

Legba

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Whereas I have no kids of my own, I see this struggle in my own extended family. My brother is a non-psychotic gun and sporting enthusiast, which his anti- wife takes to be synonymous with "psycho." He wants to take their daughters out to give them supervised instruction at arms when they are older and if they are interested. The wife is WAY down on this, seeing it as symptomatic of, well, something heinous. Nevermind she married a guy who had such instruction with guns as a kid...

<indelicate prediction redacted>

As for the OP, the only 1911-type SA guns I have, I carry loaded with hammer down and safety engaged. This is possible on mine. I don't care for "cocked and locked."

-ljp
 

JOESEEB

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well i apologize for my ignorance and I stand corrected. I spoke about something that i knew very little about. i assumed that because the p90 was modeled after the 1911 that the internals where similar and failed to realize that the p90 is a modern variant of it thus they are different. i would hope that everyone would forgive me. i promise that i wont speak about some thing I don't know about again as 1 it makes me look stupid and 2 it makes people made. so once again i apologize. my point was that its not smart to rely one something that could fail this is why the government uses double redundancy and why manufactures put safety's on the firearm.
 

Daddyo

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para_org wrote:
Oh yeah, while it may be true that inside the military they did not use the safeties on a ACP style gun (1911), that does NOT mean that they somehow found their way onto the gun by some mystery. They were put there for affirmative reasons, and in the case of the backstrap mounted "grip" safety, by order of the military and it was NOT something J. Browning wanted to do. Browning specifically believed in the thumb activated safety which by deisgn cannot function as a safety UNLESS the gun is cocked.
.
Actually, it was the other way around. Browning designed it with a grip safety only and the military said they wanted a thumb safety as well.
 

para_org

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Uh nope.... Look at Brownings later designs (i.e. Hi-Power)...and his earlier ones that were not military designs...NO grip safeties !

Then go read the hubbub from the military trials. (Google is your friend.)
 

NavyVA

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Kinda confused here IRT related conditions for the XD 9mm Sub Compact (No thumb safety). I hope an XD guru could clarify. I know the previous conditions 0-4 related to 1911 type pistols, but with the XD, seems a bit confusing. Would the combined trigger and grip safety (together) on the XD be comparable to the thumb safety on the 1911?

In other words:
(1911)Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
(XD)Condition 0 - For a true condition 0 it seems that the pistol would have to be in your hand (both grip and trigger safeties engaged, short of actually pulling the trigger).

(1911)Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
(XD)Condition 1 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and either individually or a combination of the grip and/or trigger safety is not pressed.

(1911)Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
(XD)Condition 2 - Non existent due to single action ability only with no hammer to pull back.

(1911)Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
(XD)Condition 3 - Same as the 1911.

(1911)Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
(XD)Condition 4 - Same as the 1911.

Hope I haven't confused everyone, but this is what I think it to be. Maybe I should ask SA.
 

para_org

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- There is a newer model XD in .45 that has a thumb safety. Your listing should be modified to reflect that.

- ALSO.... there is no such thing as a "trigger safety" per se. As there is no such thing as a safety mounted inside the trigger guard by definition. This also means that there really is only one safety you can manipulate if you do not have the newer model.

Dunno if this is the kind of feedback you wanted, but these are my initial thoughts on what you wrote.
 

NavyVA

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Sorry for the vagueness, I have an SA XD 9mm SubCompact. No thumb safety, just grip safety and the Ultra Safety Assurance trigger system (similar to the Glock trigger)
 

para_org

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LOL on the trigger pre-actuator being called a safety. Ah well, not everything from Austria is 'grand'.

NP on the vague.
 

AimSmall

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Another twist to the condition one, is the olderAMT Back-Up SA .380which has no external hammer,but athumb safety, and a grip safety. I carry it in condition one, there is no condition two, and I want one in the chamber. Any comments on the AMT from documented events, that I can benifit from? I feel comfortable with this BUG, and would invite comment as to cond. one with this piece, as I don't want a ND/AD.
 

para_org

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Google, read, and grok Massad Ayoob's writings on holstering weapons. If your weapon cannot be used to follow his excellent advise on this critical part of gunhandling, do NOT carry the weapon. You wil be enlightened AND you may be surprised on what guns that are quite popular and yet should not be holstered !!

Other than that, just be sure to follow the standard 4 safety rules and you should be fine.
 

MrCraigCraig

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hunter45 wrote:
I recently purchased my first 1911. I'm curious, do many of you carry in "condition 0" (with the thumb safety off), or do the majority of you have the thumb safety applied?
I carry mine in one of the following conditions....

A: Cartridge in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on.

B: Chamber empty, hammer down, safety on.

For the quickest reaction time to a perceived threat, choice A is preferable.

When carrying administratively or while on a firing range, choice B seems more comfortable.
 

Statesman

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wow, 4 pages on the best way to carry a 1911 ?

Condition 1: cocked and locked.

This is a no brainer for me. The thumb safety on a Kimber is intuitive, and automatic due to habit.

I don't have the stones to attempt manually decocking a 1911 with a live round in the chamber. I drop the magazine, rack the slide, ejecting the .45, check the chamber for safety, then drop the hammer in a safe direction.
 

Statesman

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FunkTrooper

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Statesman wrote:
para_org wrote:
Uh nope.... Look at Brownings later designs (i.e. Hi-Power)...and his earlier ones that were not military designs...NO grip safeties !

Then go read the hubbub from the military trials. (Google is your friend.)
Google is not your friend. Google's CEO is recently reported to have attended the Bilderberg conference.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/google-ceo-in-attendance-at-bilderberg-2009.html
Yeah I heard he's going to use google to brain wash us into slaves for his globalist agenda.
 

TheManWithNoName

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MrCraigCraig wrote:
hunter45 wrote:
I recently purchased my first 1911. I'm curious, do many of you carry in "condition 0" (with the thumb safety off), or do the majority of you have the thumb safety applied?
I carry mine in one of the following conditions....

A: Cartridge in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety on.

B: Chamber empty, hammer down, safety on.


For the quickest reaction time to a perceived threat, choice A is preferable.

When carrying administratively or while on a firing range, choice B seems more comfortable.
I'm curious... how do you engage the safety without the hammer cocked?

This debate always baffles me. :banghead: Condition 1 is the only safe method of carry which allows fast readiness. (The other safe condition being condition 3 which of course requires the slide to be racked and therefore two hands and a time delay.) The thumb safety is intuitive and easy to use. Use it! Its use requires less effort, dexterity, and risk than carefully lowering the hammer on a live round.

If you are afraid of the thumb safety coming off, carry it around your house cocked and locked with an empty chamber or a snap cap loaded. When you finally realize that condition one is perfectly safe, you may then carry it that way. Until then do not attempt to carry it in any other unsafe condition. (0 or 2) You make us all look bad when you have a negligent discharge.

Carry something else if you are not prepared to carry any and every 1911 in condition 1.
 

Walkeraviator

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I do not own a 1911 although i will some day hopefully. I have carried a few of my fathers pistols at his permission, a Bersa Thunder 380 and a Beretta 96. In both cases, they are double/singles and therefore carrying with the thumb safety on and the hammer decocked was not an issue. BUt when i do carry a 1911 I intend on carrying in condition 1. It makes since to me since i have a love for Single Action Army Colts.

Presently I carry an M&P 40c with one in the pipe. It is designed like a Glock. Therefore, in holster there is a trigger guard, and when drawn the finger does not enter the trigger guard til ready to fire.(i spend a lot of time practicing draw and fire technique.) Since teh firearm has an internal firepic block and the trigger is always protected, the firearm CANNOT go off unless i pull the trigger on purpose. So that is how i carry..one in pipe and no safety since there arent any real safetys on teh firearm.



My 2 cents. Probably useless to this conversation but there it is.
 

para_org

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Walkeraviator wrote:
I do not own a 1911 although i will some day hopefully. I have carried a few of my fathers pistols at his permission, a Bersa Thunder 380 and a Beretta 96. In both cases, they are double/singles and therefore carrying with the thumb safety on and the hammer decocked was not an issue. BUt when i do carry a 1911 I intend on carrying in condition 1. It makes since to me since i have a love for Single Action Army Colts.

Presently I carry an M&P 40c with one in the pipe. It is designed like a Glock. Therefore, in holster there is a trigger guard, and when drawn the finger does not enter the trigger guard til ready to fire.(i spend a lot of time practicing draw and fire technique.) Since teh firearm has an internal firepic block and the trigger is always protected, the firearm CANNOT go off unless i pull the trigger on purpose. So that is how i carry..one in pipe and no safety since there arent any real safetys on teh firearm.



My 2 cents. Probably useless to this conversation but there it is.
If you are convinced that the trigger can only be actuated by your finger, and only on purpose, then you have a safe gun.

I am not so smart myself, so when my coat (or a twig, or something else I might not see or know about) gets caught in MY holster I am extremely pleased to NOT be carrying a Glock.

How do you plan on making sure that such a gun designed without a safety or a locked breech will not fire when you holster it ? (The usual answer is that you make sure nothing is in the holster. That's some silver coated blarney BTW, so I am sure you will not be so sophmoric as to suggest it.)

A minor point, but since you brought it up; a firing pin block has nothing to do with a manipulated safety mechanism. It may appear that way, but it is not something you specifically manipulate *apart* from pulling the trigger. If pulling the trigger unlocks the firing pin as a result of the a trigger pull, then the firing pin block is simply a part of actuating the trigger. NOTHING MORE. More importantly it exists to fix a design envelope issue which is why some designs do not require it at all.

BOTTOM LINE; Be smarter than BOTH your equipment and the slob that designed it and you will assure yourself some safety in use. Be not so smart and end up with "Glock leg".
 

SpringerXDacp

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Would someone please list/cite all of the cases where a Glock went BANG without the trigger being depressed. I would really like to know ofsuch events. :quirky
 

para_org

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They don't go bang without a trigger being pulled. Or I know of no cases personally. But that is NOT what is being discussed.

Unfortunately Glocks have no safeties, so if a twig in you holster pulls the trigger for you when you insert your weapon, then **yes** they do go bang. (Or your coat-tail, or a broken trigger guard captive device in the holster.....Hey Uncle Mike's had to recall a Glock holster for just this reason !)

Anyways, the Uncle Mike holster thing is one place to start IF you **meant** to be asking if there were any cases of inserting a gun into a holster and having it go off. In that case it was a part in the retention device that MIGHT touch the trigger itself. If the Glock HAD a real safety, the problem would not have been an issue per se. And it could have been noted and corrected WITHOUT a discharge.

Which brings up the whole point. NOTHING is perfect, so a gun without a safety begs the question of how any manner of holstering can be assured to NOT actuate a trigger. The ONLY correct answer is no worthwhile holster and/or method of holstering is perfect. SO......the shooter WILL NOT be able to assure no discharge holstering a gun that has no safeties unless they do not have a round in the chamber. PERIOD.
 
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