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Do you recall, restaurant serious crime?

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
Think of it like this-
Maybe, just maybe, if you guys weren't forcing a business to decide, they wouldn't have to go public saying "no firearms", thus advertising to the criminal community their vulnerability.

"We" didn't force anyone to do anything. Anti-gunners did. They're the ones forcing the change in policy.

#ohsnap
 

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
We get it, you are anti OC, with a chip on your shoulder and a severe case of entitlement. Too bad for you, has nothing to do with the rest of us.

This thread was not about your whining or that I have stepped on your fragile toes. It is about business that has been robbed or other crimes while OCers were present. Your attack as usual was completely off target and rabid.
And you are so offended by what I said that you outright lie. Again...you don't get it. I'd try correcting you, but somehow I'm not sure that would matter.


"We" didn't force anyone to do anything. Anti-gunners did. They're the ones forcing the change in policy.

#ohsnap

No, you are when you OC longarms into a store. Even CC longarms. Ok, the law says no handguns. I guess talk to the right people and get it changed.

You just don't get it...to the detriment of the rest of the Second Amendment-supporters.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
This thread was never about long arms, you came here trying to inject your hoplophobe agenda, and then start lying trying to deflect your own dishonesty.
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
No, you are when you OC longarms into a store. Even CC longarms. Ok, the law says no handguns. I guess talk to the right people and get it changed.

You just don't get it...to the detriment of the rest of the Second Amendment-supporters.

Apparently you don't get it. Go back to the first post and read it. You brought this nonsense into this thread. It's not our fault you lack proper reasoning skills.
 
Last edited:

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
I wish TX had CC back when the guy killed so many people at Luby's in Killeen. That was the start of CHL in modern Texas.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
Apparently you don't get it. Go back to the first post and read it. You brought this nonsense into this thread. It's not our fault you lack proper reasoning skills.


The OP said....
Does anybody recall a serious restaurant crime committed in the presence of a lawfully armed citizen openly carrying?

While I can think of many instances of restaurant crime in NC, I have never heard of a instance where there was a openly carried firearm worn by a LAC. IMO, we are missing the boat and instead bickering among ourselves pointing this out to the business, and the public, that we indeed are good for their safety. And that MDA is wrong and putting them in danger, and they know it, but just don't care.

Please if you know of specific instances across the country let's compile them, and then compare them to the instances of restaurant serious crime with no open carry present. I think we can make a compelling case to the insurance companies of these businesses, and the stock holders.

I did a google search of IHOP robberies, and Starbucks robberies. IHOP is known to be gun friendly, and well you know the story on Starsucks. The IHOP returned 38,000 hits, the Starsucks returned 720,000 hits. I returned 107,000 hits on Waffle House robbery, not as dramatic but still over double of the gun friendly business.

Now I am not going to research that many hits, but I think it is compelling.

This is too ridiculous, I got 98,500 hits for Staples, not even a typical business for a armed robbery, but again a well known anti gun business.

This became an issue when people start ignoring the requests of the businesses, no matter if it's hand gun or long gun, and taking those into the stores. Every store I have been in had no problem with handguns. NONE. NEVER. ANYWHERE. California included. But you don't see that. You only see what you want to see.
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
The OP said....


This became an issue when people start ignoring the requests of the businesses, no matter if it's hand gun or long gun, and taking those into the stores. Every store I have been in had no problem with handguns. NONE. NEVER. ANYWHERE. California included. But you don't see that. You only see what you want to see.

Again... your statement has nothing to do with the OP.

The question remains: Does anyone have any knowledge of crimes being committed in restaurants where there was someone OCing that was not LEO? I really can't imagine how incredibly obtuse you are being. It's like we're all here trying to count to 10 and you're yelling "POTATO! POTATO!"
 

Perkins

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Washington
Well, it's not in a resturant, but it is an example of OC failing to prevent an armed attack in a small store. Seems the OCer was in line to check out when a drugged up gunman entered and shot the clerk; no demand for cash, no time spent looking for armed resistance, just entered and fired. As has been mentioned, people often don't notice OCers; coupled with the tunnel vision effect criminals often get, it's no surprise it doesn't always stop violent crimes. As for resturants, consider that when you are sitting at a table with your gun on your hip, there's a 50/50 chance that the gun will be toward the wall and not visible, thereby giving no deterance. Of course, in a situation like this, the OC/CC issue becomes moot, since it goes unnoticed by the BG anyway, and OC allows a faster response. I don't know how many CCers in this guys position would have been able to get their gun out fast enough to engage the gunman who had just shot the clerk.

http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=4520225
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Well, it's not in a resturant, but it is an example of OC failing to prevent an armed attack in a small store. Seems the OCer was in line to check out when a drugged up gunman entered and shot the clerk; no demand for cash, no time spent looking for armed resistance, just entered and fired. As has been mentioned, people often don't notice OCers; coupled with the tunnel vision effect criminals often get, it's no surprise it doesn't always stop violent crimes. As for resturants, consider that when you are sitting at a table with your gun on your hip, there's a 50/50 chance that the gun will be toward the wall and not visible, thereby giving no deterance. Of course, in a situation like this, the OC/CC issue becomes moot, since it goes unnoticed by the BG anyway, and OC allows a faster response. I don't know how many CCers in this guys position would have been able to get their gun out fast enough to engage the gunman who had just shot the clerk.

http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=4520225

Actually if that is the incident I remember, the OCer saved lives, and took the life of the armed robber. There was not that much to go on from that link. Grape is more familiar with this than I am, hopefully he comments.
 

Perkins

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Washington
That is correct, the gunman eventually tried to flee, collapsed by the door and expired. I couldn't find my bookmark to the original story, that was a partial repost that I could find. My point was that even when OC fails to prevent attacks, it still allows for a rapid and effective response; it's a good thing the OCer was there that day. However, it is important not to overestimate the deterance effect. You can't just assume the BG will see your gun and decide not to attack; he may not even notice you have it, at which point you will likely need to use it.
 

dogshawred

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
4
Location
East Central Ohio
The stats you are really wanting just aren't available: how many criminals don't commit the crime because they see an open carrier present in the area.
~
There are the stats from convicted criminals, 60% of them stating that they would avoid any confrontation with a gun holder if they could avoid it. But these guys have already been caught, tried and convicted.
~
The guys (criminals) who saw the carrier and thought better of committing the crime because of it isn't going to tell anybody about his venture/misadventure for a number of reasons. Because of that you are left in the dark and only left with the decline of robbery occurrences and even that doesn't answer you question.
~
I believe open carry has a strong deterrent effect and works to keep criminals mindful of being injured because of the presence of guns. That said insurance companies don't look at moneys not spend they only look at moneys spent and how it affects the bottom line. Those are statistics that are b/w, moneys not spent are only conjecture and supposition, something that an insurance company doesn't consider.
 
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