• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Draw time

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
The app I was talking about has the random start also.

I didn't see any option to enable the random timer. This is what we downloaded: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stimer

I did find the sensitivity calibration. The app was registering every bump as a shot prior to calibration.

When I hit the start button, the counter started.


I just saw this on the app page:
+Starts count before start signal
Maybe I just needed to wait longer?
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Some also like to forget the number of steps it takes to draw while concealed.

CC:
1) Discern threat.
2) Clear hands.
3) Clear concealment garment (sometimes requires two hands).
4) Obtain grip on firearm.
5) Disengage retention measures.
6) Draw firearm.

OC doesn't require number 3 and NEVER requires two hands to draw.

It is thus *scientifically impossible for one to draw from concealment as quickly as one can draw without concealment.

*Presented without any actual science by yours truly.
[bolded for emphasis]
THERE'S an idea. Why not carry out some professionaly-timed* drills that measure the time of CC and of OC (similar to the Tueller drills)?
*Professionally, as in, done by someone of the scientific community who could then help you publish the results in respected journals dealing with something like psychology (or another of the "Social Sciences";)). It could help someone down the line if they need scientific proof in court.

I figure you would need:
A sample size of about 100 or more individuals with roughly equal gender distribution, and across the age spectrum, with varying degrees of competency with firearms (from "none" to "recreational" "pro competitor", and even a few "military")
A slate of holsters varying in retention levels to be used in both the CC and OC trials (to be fair)
Blanks or Simunition to use in the firearm (for safety)
"Casual" and "business" clothing (no "tacticool" or "competition" clothes) to keep the simulations near REAL-WORLD expectations
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
THERE'S an idea. Why not carry out some professionaly-timed* drills that measure the time of CC and of OC (similar to the Tueller drills)?
*Professionally, as in, done by someone of the scientific community who could then help you publish the results in respected journals dealing with something like psychology (or another of the "Social Sciences";)). It could help someone down the line if they need scientific proof in court.
Who wants to write the grant request and to whom do we submit it?
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
THERE'S an idea. Why not carry out some professionaly-timed* drills that measure the time of CC and of OC (similar to the Tueller drills)?
*Professionally, as in, done by someone of the scientific community who could then help you publish the results in respected journals dealing with something like psychology (or another of the "Social Sciences";)). It could help someone down the line if they need scientific proof in court.

I figure you would need:
A sample size of about 100 or more individuals with roughly equal gender distribution, and across the age spectrum, with varying degrees of competency with firearms (from "none" to "recreational" "pro competitor", and even a few "military")
A slate of holsters varying in retention levels to be used in both the CC and OC trials (to be fair)
Blanks or Simunition to use in the firearm (for safety)
"Casual" and "business" clothing (no "tacticool" or "competition" clothes) to keep the simulations near REAL-WORLD expectations
(as a prosecutor)

The defendant knew that openly carrying his gun would give him a distinct draw speed advantage over the poor 19-yr-old child plaintiff, and used this knowledge to murder the poor 19-yr-old child, shown here (hold up a picture of plaintiff as a 12-yr-old because the picture from three weeks ago showed drug use and gang signs and was thus ejected from court)
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
(as a prosecutor)

The defendant knew that openly carrying his gun would give him a distinct draw speed advantage over the poor 19-yr-old child plaintiff, and used this knowledge to murder the poor 19-yr-old child, shown here (hold up a picture of plaintiff as a 12-yr-old because the picture from three weeks ago showed drug use and gang signs and was thus ejected from court)
This is why I love OCDO. No matter how awesome an idea sounds in your head, others will constructively criticize the hell out of it and show you why you need to spend more time on it.:p And I was just about to suggest to MyWifeSaidYes that we should brainstorm something more "scientific" into a working hypothesis for me to pass along to a friend who's looking for a thesis.

Alright, I see how this would look bad. Especially since certain lawmakers seem to want the gun parts to be in separate rooms throughout the house since they can't be banned altogether. Any way it could be used to show something that benefits our side without having it cut back?
 
Last edited:

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Silvertongue is not wrong, but that is no reason to set aside a scientific endeavor.

A good shoot is a good shoot.

...and the prosecutor in Silvertongue's example just admitted that his client was drawing a gun, so....that probably wouldn't happen.
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
A good shoot will always be a good shoot, and a good idea will always be a good idea.

So if you want to do it, go for someone who times things very accurately for a living. Someone outside of the firearms industry, maybe in the automotive or sports sciences. Races gotta get timed, and it's definitely a race.

Also be sure to make people draw in adverse conditions, such as one handed, seated and buckled in a car, lying on one's back/sides.

One would think the shooters would all need to use the same technique.

Also bring in Rob Pincus and James Yeager just to shut them up.
 
Top