Family Friend - Firearm Being Destroyed

[ArmySoldier22]

I didn't find out about this last night, I wish I had sooner. My sister's ex-boyfriend is still a big part of the family because they have a child together. He still spends a lot of time hanging out with my parents and me. Well, he was out driving the other day in Concord and a police officer performed a traffic stop with him at a stoplight. The officer said his car was too loud ("he's black btw, and most of you know how the concord police force can be. It's no secret that they'll pull you over for DWB "Driving while black"). The second the officer came to the window, he informed the LEO that there was a firearm in his car and that it was on the passenger seat. Well, when he looked over at the seat, the firearm had fallen onto the floor. The street he was on, there's a pretty bad bump in the road right before you come up to the stoplight, and he's thinking it fell onto the floor when he hit that. It still wasn't hidden or anything though, you could look in the car through the window and still see it. Infact, the officer spotted it immediately. Btw, the firearm was not loaded, and there was no ammunition in the vehicle. He was just transporting it home.

That wasn't good enough though, he was placed under arrest and the firearm was taken. All because the officer considered it concealed. I know that it's location does make it a very iffy subject. He's been trying to fight the the police department to get his weapon back, but now they're talking about having it destroyed instead. He can't really afford one, but he's decided to get a lawyer and try to fight it.

So, from the people out there that have been fighting the fight for awhile, do you have any advice I can give him? I realize it might not be a straightforward situation, and if you're advice is to just drop it, I'll pass that along. But I would like to give him something.

 

[Xulld]

I didn't find out about this last night, I wish I had sooner. My sister's ex-boyfriend is still a big part of the family because they have a child together. He still spends a lot of time hanging out with my parents and me. Well, he was out driving the other day in Concord and a police officer performed a traffic stop with him at a stoplight. The officer said his car was too loud ("he's black btw, and most of you know how the concord police force can be. It's no secret that they'll pull you over for DWB "Driving while black"). The second the officer came to the window, he informed the LEO that there was a firearm in his car and that it was on the passenger seat. Well, when he looked over at the seat, the firearm had fallen onto the floor. The street he was on, there's a pretty bad bump in the road right before you come up to the stoplight, and he's thinking it fell onto the floor when he hit that. It still wasn't hidden or anything though, you could look in the car through the window and still see it. Infact, the officer spotted it immediately. Btw, the firearm was not loaded, and there was no ammunition in the vehicle. He was just transporting it home.

That wasn't good enough though, he was placed under arrest and the firearm was taken. All because the officer considered it concealed. I know that it's location does make it a very iffy subject. He's been trying to fight the the police department to get his weapon back, but now they're talking about having it destroyed instead. He can't really afford one, but he's decided to get a lawyer and try to fight it.

So, from the people out there that have been fighting the fight for awhile, do you have any advice I can give him? I realize it might not be a straightforward situation, and if you're advice is to just drop it, I'll pass that along. But I would like to give him something.

Was he charged with a crime?

 

[cricketdad]

I didn't find out about this last night, I wish I had sooner. My sister's ex-boyfriend is still a big part of the family because they have a child together. He still spends a lot of time hanging out with my parents and me. Well, he was out driving the other day in Concord and a police officer performed a traffic stop with him at a stoplight. The officer said his car was too loud ("he's black btw, and most of you know how the concord police force can be. It's no secret that they'll pull you over for DWB "Driving while black"). The second the officer came to the window, he informed the LEO that there was a firearm in his car and that it was on the passenger seat. Well, when he looked over at the seat, the firearm had fallen onto the floor. The street he was on, there's a pretty bad bump in the road right before you come up to the stoplight, and he's thinking it fell onto the floor when he hit that. It still wasn't hidden or anything though, you could look in the car through the window and still see it. Infact, the officer spotted it immediately. Btw, the firearm was not loaded, and there was no ammunition in the vehicle. He was just transporting it home.

That wasn't good enough though, he was placed under arrest and the firearm was taken. All because the officer considered it concealed. I know that it's location does make it a very iffy subject. He's been trying to fight the the police department to get his weapon back, but now they're talking about having it destroyed instead. He can't really afford one, but he's decided to get a lawyer and try to fight it.

So, from the people out there that have been fighting the fight for awhile, do you have any advice I can give him? I realize it might not be a straightforward situation, and if you're advice is to just drop it, I'll pass that along. But I would like to give him something.

I'd talk to a lawyer and see how much it would cost and then decide if it was worth the fight.
http://www.grnc.org/resources/gun-friendly-lawyers

 

[Kivuli]

Oy. That sucks bigtime. I don't really know what to say except get a lawyer and try to fight it. It'll help immensely if he wasn't actually charged with anything gun-related. It'll help even more if he wasn't cited for anything.

 

[muccione]

If the LEO saw the gun right "right away" than how could it be concealed? Any part of the firearm can be visible for it NOT to be concealed.
The only way to find a concealed anything is to search for it.
BTW, Nc doesn't care if a gun is loaded or not.
Good luck

 

[ArmySoldier22]

He wasn't charged with anything. They released him a few hours later.

As far as the LEO considering it concealed, who knows. It's an LEO, we just expect that they're going to make stupid judgement calls like that. I hate to say it, but it's true around here, if he had been white I don't think it would've gotten this far. I don't think it had anything to do with where the weapon was located.

Thanks for that list of gun-friendly lawyers. Maybe he can afford one of them.

 

[NC-Heel]

Does he have a record? If yes, then drop it because it will cost more for a lawyer than the gun is worth (I'm guessing it is not a Ed Brown 1911). If he has no record then does he want a concealed weapons charge as his first ding.

 

[Shimmer]

Does he have a record? If yes, then drop it because it will cost more for a lawyer than the gun is worth (I'm guessing it is not a Ed Brown 1911). If he has no record then does he want a concealed weapons charge as his first ding.

Remember, too, there is something to be said for doing the right thing. Personally, I'd take it to court it if was marginally affordable. Sometimes, you need to let them know they can't just do these things. With that said, it really depends on how accurately the situation was conveyed to you, and what the officers saw and can prove.

 

[Adam H]

If he wasn't charged with anything, how can they keep his firearm?

 

[NC-Heel]

If he wasn't charged with anything, how can they keep his firearm?

Legally they can't and if you feel like spending enough money you can have a judge tell them so. Most agencies have a unspoken policy of once they take possession of your firearm a judge will have to tell them to give it back. Know a guy who the neighbors called on for a domestic squabble. He punched the wall while arguing with his girlfriend. Police arrive and he notify s them of the firearm stored in his house. They talk him into letting them take possession of the firearm due to the circumstances of the call and they will return it later. He never saw it again.

 

[ArmySoldier22]

Alright, I called him up to try to get filled in on all the details.

1) He is being charged with the weapon being concealed.
When the police officer approached the vehicle, he had both hands in the air above the steering wheel. He then told the LEO that there was a weapon in the car and that it had fallen off of the seat next to him. The LEO shined his flashlight into the car and seen it laying on the floor board. Still obviously visible and in no way being hidden. The officer asked him why he hadn't tried to reach down and pick up the firearm. He replied that there was no way that he was going to reach down onto the floor board and try to grab the weapon while a law enforcement officer was approaching the vehicle "I'd call that a pretty smart move."

2) He has no prior record

3) His court date is on the 28th where he will find out if they're going to attempt to convict him of the charge or not. He spoke with a lawyer that recommended waiting until after that court date before he hired anyone to defend him "Does that sound right?. I've never been in court, so I don't know how the whole process works."

4) No matter what, he will be pleading Not Guilty.

 

[davidmcbeth]

As far as the LEO considering it concealed, who knows..

I know: its not concealed under these sets of facts.

 

[smlawrence]

His first courtdate will be boring. They will call role, ask how he pleas, ask if he has an attorney and if he doesn't then they can provide one for him if he cannot afford one. Then they will give him a real court date. It sucks but if it were me, I would have an attorney before the first courtdate. Good luck.

P.S. Talk to him about ways he can secure his weapon in a vehicle so that it doesn’t fall into the floor because of a bump or outside of the vehicle if he were to happen to get in an accident.

 

[Sahib0120]

Even though it was in the floor board, if the officer can see it from the window then technically it's not concealed. In court a line of questioning like this could go:

Officer: I charged him with a concealed weapon.
Defense: How did you determine he had a concealed weapon?
Officer: I saw it in the car when I walked up to the window.

....So since he could see it clearly from the moment he walked up, it obviously wasn't concealed.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ArmySoldier22]

That's my look on it too. But I also realize that this isn't a perfect world where everybody has common sense. I'm just hoping that whatever judge he goes infront of will.

Thanks for the info smlawrence. I did have a talk with him about that. I recommended a paddle holster and attaching it to the passenger seat belt.

 

[Dreamer]

There is NO expense to high to fight this. IF he doesn't fight it and loses, he will have a misdemeanor weapons charge on his record, which will mean he can NEVER get a CC permit in NC (and probably not in any other state) and it will DEFINITELY effect his ability to legally purchase firearms from FFLs in the future as well, if not put him in the "prohibited person" category.

His main concern shouldn't be with getting this specific gun back--his MAIN concern should be getting this bogus charge dismissed and his record cleared, because it could negatively effect his 2A rights for the rest of his life.

Fight this one--his 2A rights for the rest of his life depend on it...

 

[Kivuli]

I think the logic behind them telling him to wait is to see if they simply dismiss the charges on the first appearance. That way you don't have to pay for something you don't actually have to defend against.

However, I think he should lawyer up.

 

[ArmySoldier22]

There is NO expense to high to fight this. IF he doesn't fight it and loses, he will have a misdemeanor weapons charge on his record, which will mean he can NEVER get a CC permit in NC (and probably not in any other state) and it will DEFINITELY effect his ability to legally purchase firearms from FFLs in the future as well, if not put him in the "prohibited person" category.

His main concern shouldn't be with getting this specific gun back--his MAIN concern should be getting this bogus charge dismissed and his record cleared, because it could negatively effect his 2A rights for the rest of his life.

Fight this one--his 2A rights for the rest of his life depend on it...

Agreed. As far as no expense being too high, I agree as well. But sometimes the funds just aren't there, no matter how bad you want them to be. If it comes down to it, I'll help him out any way I can, but I'm not much better off financially than he is. I know my parents would bend over backwards to help him out as well. So maybe if we all pull together, we can get him a decent lawyer.

 

[NC-Heel]

he will have a misdemeanor weapons charge on his record, which will mean he can NEVER get a CC permit in NC (and probably not in any other state) and it will DEFINITELY effect his ability to legally purchase firearms from FFLs in the future as well, if not put him in the "prohibited person" category.

That is totally incorrect. I have a concealed weapons conviction. It was in a glove box that I thought was locked but wasn't. Told the officer it was there.