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Fredericksburg man convicted of brandishing

Va_Nemo

Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
653
Location
Lynchburg
I was under the impression (mistaken?) that VCDL was on top of things in VA...or, is VCDL now nothing but a hand puppet?...a mere caricature of their former selves.


Go look. https://vcdl.org/

We have near doubled out membership in the past month. If you live in Va and are not a member, why not?

As far as involvement in any specific case, I cannot comment.

Nemo
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,242
Location
here nc
Go look. https://vcdl.org/

We have near doubled out membership in the past month. If you live in Va and are not a member, why not?

As far as involvement in any specific case, I cannot comment.

Nemo

so their marketing is doing well...where is the money going & to what?

oh and members have a say?
 

Va_Nemo

Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
653
Location
Lynchburg
I cannot specficially answer your questions. You will need to contact management for that.

See below for what I can tell you.

Nemo

Go here: https://vcdl.org/

That is the best source for info. Or hunt up Virginia Citizens Defense League on FB. I think this is it, but I don't do FB so you may need more hunting.

https://www.facebook.com/VCDL.ORG

AND

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2372500698/

Interesting note from that site:

13,790 Members
6,491+ in the last 30 days



But to make it simple for those who just want what I share here go sign up for that email here: https://vcdl.org/VA-ALERT

Its easy to get off the list if you choose to. No spam either.

Progress is being made. This link takes you to a map of it.

 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,242
Location
here nc
What has VCDL been up to lately? Are you serious? Are you living in a box?

Not to mention this:


TFred

oh right FB media...ya i frequent FB quite regularly ~ nope, nada, never been there...

so you quote VCDL's site then quote VaGunForum's FB site to justifying VCDL's activities...

so confused...
 

Va_Nemo

Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
653
Location
Lynchburg
Simple intellect and understanding, combined with a basic education would permit you to figure it out all by yourself.

Nemo
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
oh right FB media...ya i frequent FB quite regularly ~ nope, nada, never been there...

so you quote VCDL's site then quote VaGunForum's FB site to justifying VCDL's activities...

so confused...
I didn't quote anything from VCDL. And yeah, if you aren't monitoring social media, then you are in a box.

But that's not even what I was talking about. VCDL has been covered in probably dozens of news stories over the past few weeks, PVC has been interviewed all over the place, and apparently you haven't seen the VCDL presence among the TENS OF THOUSANDS of people turning out at the sanctuary county/city meetings. How do you think all those people know where and when to show up? Do you really need me to tell you?

I posted a link to a Facebook page simply because it was a public link that shows the success of the Sanctuary movement thus far.

You sound like a blind guy walking around complaining that all the light bulbs are burned out.

TFred
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,242
Location
here nc
I see...

a "public" link on FB...hummm

kinda like being a Masonic member...gotta be a member to be in the know...
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,242
Location
here nc
Simple intellect and understanding, combined with a basic education would permit you to figure it out all by yourself.

Nemo

you are absolutely right Va...what i find so interesting is why does the sender of the message ALWAY presume the receiver is intellectually diminished and lacking understand from their minimal education?

especially when the sender's message was not appropriately articulated, written for outsiders perspective & communicated to enhance understand the organization's mission statement & goals.

i am sorry you failed to understand an organizational epistle about "oh lookie we increased membership" reads as bragging about more money in the coffers and without stating how, where, or why these increased followers whill help the cause!

when you can't articulate one iota about how the increased membership will impact the VCDL's mission Nemo when asked...says the sender's message was severely lacking & not the receiver's problem!
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,785
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Facebook is NOT an open-source or public forum as such. Facebook is a membership only forum just like Sam's Club or Costco membership stores. You play by their rules. But, unlike OCDO, Facebook's rules are fluid, changing at their very whim and prejudicial towards groups that disagree with their views.

Facebook suckered you into forfeiting your privacy and most of you were happy to do it.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I see...

a "public" link on FB...hummm

kinda like being a Masonic member...gotta be a member to be in the know...
Yes, it is a link that any member of the public can view, without regard to their affiliation with Facebook. Some content on Facebook is not public, and you must not only have an account with them, in some cases, the permissions are restricted to certain people or certain groups. You can copy and share a link to such content, but without the proper account, you cannot see the content.

In this case, I ensured that the link I posted was available for the public to view.

And as I said, the point was simply that the map showed the success that VCDL has assisted in reaching with the passage of 2A Sanctuary status across Virginia. I could just as easily have copied the picture and posted it directly here.

But you would have had to think of something else to complain about, so for that, you are welcome.

TFred
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
i am sorry you failed to understand an organizational epistle about "oh lookie we increased membership" reads as bragging about more money in the coffers and without stating how, where, or why these increased followers whill help the cause!

when you can't articulate one iota about how the increased membership will impact the VCDL's mission Nemo when asked...says the sender's message was severely lacking & not the receiver's problem!
You really must live in a box. Do you really think that the measely $25 a pop is the primary goal of VCDL membership? Absurd. It's all about influence, and the ability to wield that influence upon the legislators and the public narrative.

I suppose you hate the NRA as well, but where do you think we would be without them today? That's not a rhetorical question. I suspect the Second Amendment would be but a wistful relic of (some) history books if it weren't for the NRA. You will scoff, but it's an easy point to make. In 2008, we came ONE SINGLE VOTE on the Supreme Court from losing all significant meaning to the Second Amendment. Heller confirmed that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to own and maintain an operable firearm in their own home, unconnected to service in an organized militia, or today's National Guard. ONE SINGLE VOTE. And how did we end up with the five votes that saved it? Over the years prior to that case, the NRA's advocacy for Presidential candidates and Senators who nominated and confirmed those five justices. If ONE SINGLE VOTE had gone the other way, NOBODY would have any significant protection to even OWN a firearm, much less carry one in public.

VCDL's increased numbers are HUGELY significant. Especially the new ones who joined because of this present crisis. They are motivated. They are paying attention. They are coming to rallys. They are contacting their legislators. They are going to vote more reliably in the future than they may have in the past. How can any serious person interested in the preservation of gun rights possibly ignore or even disparage the only organizations that are getting this done?

TFred
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,785
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
.....

I suppose you hate the NRA as well, but where do you think we would be without them today? That's not a rhetorical question. I suspect the Second Amendment would be but a wistful relic of (some) history books if it weren't for the NRA. You will scoff, but it's an easy point to make. In 2008, we came ONE SINGLE VOTE on the Supreme Court from losing all significant meaning to the Second Amendment. Heller confirmed that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to own and maintain an operable firearm in their own home, unconnected to service in an organized militia, or today's National Guard. ONE SINGLE VOTE. And how did we end up with the five votes that saved it? Over the years prior to that case, the NRA's advocacy for Presidential candidates and Senators who nominated and confirmed those five justices. If ONE SINGLE VOTE had gone the other way, NOBODY would have any significant protection to even OWN a firearm, much less carry one in public......

TFred
Wow…Did you drink Mike Bloomberg’s 64oz koolaid?

You give the NRA credit where no credit is due. We would not have the Gun Control Act of 1968 if the NRA would not have supported it. As a matter of fact, the NRA co-authored the gun control legislation.

Yes, you did drink the koolaid. You are parroting what the lower courts claim Heller says.

Let’s have a history lesson again.

The Supreme Court in Marbury v. Madison, 5 US 137, 177. (1803) stated: “Certainly all those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and, consequently, the theory of every such government must be, that an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void.” And, in their closing the Marbury court, at page 179, stated: “Thus, the particular phraseology of the constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is void; and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument.”

“Shall not be infringed” is not unambiguous.

The Supreme Court in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 553, 23 L.Ed 588 (1876) declared that the right of “bearing arms for a lawful purpose.” was not granted by the Constitution. The understanding was that it was in existence before the Constitution. “The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress.”

Then 134 years later the Supreme Court declared that the Second Amendment applies to the states. See McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010).

In 2008 the United States Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 592, 171 L.Ed 2d 637, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008) declared “we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment.” The Court then cited Cruikshank as part of its historical analysis. Thus, Heller held that the right to bear arms for a lawful purpose was secured by the U.S. Constitution.

More importantly, Heller did not limit the right to bear arms. It specifically stated, “Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it ‘shall not be infringed.” The Court reiterated, “Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers.”

Lower courts, federal and state, keep quoting District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 592, 171 L.Ed 2d 637, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008) for the proposition that keeping and bearing arms only applies to the home and the second amendment is not absolute.

Let’s be clear, Scalia gave his "opinion." His opinion is not the law. Article VI of the Constitution describes what qualifies as the law of the land. The only national laws are the Constitution, congressional law, and treaties. And, congressional law (statutory law) and treaties are only lawful if they pass constitutional muster. In Heller, Scalia told you what the law of the land is, the “Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it ‘shall not be infringed.” Then Scalia reiterated, “Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers.” Scalia’s opinion is directed towards two sovereigns, the fed and the states, not the citizens.

Scalia, speaking for the court, specifically stated what the law of the land is. Anything else he says is his opinion, dicta. "Not absolute" is an opinion, it is not the law. The Supremes have made it clear, the 1A and 2A are absolute. Neither Congress nor the states can make a law that interferes with 1A or 2A, period. And, that is why “only in the home” was struck down because it infringed on a preexisting right.

Just like the lower courts saying the Supreme Court proclaims that: “Shouting fire in a crowded theater” is a crime. The case they rely on is Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919).

“Shouting fire in a crowded theater” in of itself is protected speech. The result of that free speech is what could be a crime. Not the speech itself. The actual sentence from Schenck is: “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.” The panic is the crime, the tort.

Res judicata facit ex albo nigrum; ex nigro, album; ex curvo, rectum; ex recto, curvum

Translation: A thing adjudged [the solemn judgment of a court] makes white, black; black, white; the crooked, straight; the straight, crooked.

The 2A says “shall not be infringed.” It does not say shall not be infringed except for what the Supreme Court says. The manner of carry cannot be regulated because it is an infringement.

The Supreme Court told you what the 2A says, the law of the land says it shall not be infringed.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,242
Location
here nc
You really must live in a box. Do you really think that the measely $25 a pop is the primary goal of VCDL membership? Absurd. It's all about influence, and the ability to wield that influence upon the legislators and the public narrative.

I suppose you hate the NRA as well, but where do you think we would be without them today? That's not a rhetorical question. I suspect the Second Amendment would be but a wistful relic of (some) history books if it weren't for the NRA. You will scoff, but it's an easy point to make. In 2008, we came ONE SINGLE VOTE on the Supreme Court from losing all significant meaning to the Second Amendment. Heller confirmed that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to own and maintain an operable firearm in their own home, unconnected to service in an organized militia, or today's National Guard. ONE SINGLE VOTE. And how did we end up with the five votes that saved it? Over the years prior to that case, the NRA's advocacy for Presidential candidates and Senators who nominated and confirmed those five justices. If ONE SINGLE VOTE had gone the other way, NOBODY would have any significant protection to even OWN a firearm, much less carry one in public.

VCDL's increased numbers are HUGELY significant. Especially the new ones who joined because of this present crisis. They are motivated. They are paying attention. They are coming to rallys. They are contacting their legislators. They are going to vote more reliably in the future than they may have in the past. How can any serious person interested in the preservation of gun rights possibly ignore or even disparage the only organizations that are getting this done?

TFred

let's put your NRA perspective into reality
1. NRA was founded by Union generals after the civil war [1871] to assist the nation's citizens to learn how to improve their shoot skills. Thus this nation's premier firearm training organization was created ~ the training section is still the most viable training entity recognized around the world by this nation & other countries law enforcement agencies and citizens.
2. O/A late seventies an outside group had a bloodless coup and the annual meeting to overthrow the incumbent BoDs and formed the ILA division to interface with legislative bodies regarding firearm legislation.
3. Over the decades the ILA has blemished the NRA's good name with their nefarious dealings with the legislative slime while the training section continued their exemplary training activities!

In fairness, who substantiates VCDL's perception of goodness this new massive gathering of citizens is in fact contacting, participating, voting, ad nauseam ~ wait, of course everyone takes VCDL's word...never mind!

btw, does VCDL contribute member's dues directly to individual state level candidate?

disparage...the VCDL organization has been in existence since 1994 ~ hummm therefore, unless of course these crises manifested themselves overnight, how did these situation arise unnoticed within the great state of VA, then?
 

Va_Nemo

Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
653
Location
Lynchburg
you are absolutely right Va...what i find so interesting is why does the sender of the message ALWAY presume the receiver is intellectually diminished and lacking understand from their minimal education?

I did not make that presumption. Seems your question and indicated lack of understanding prove the point of your blamed presumption.

Nemo
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Wow…Did you drink Mike Bloomberg’s 64oz koolaid?
...
Almost 900 words to insult me and specifically avoid answering the question.

Let's try again.

Where would we be today if not for the NRA?

Do you actually hold the position that because of early involvement of the NRA in some of those cases you mention that the state of our right to keep and bear arms would be better RIGHT NOW if the NRA had never existed?

The rise of the progressive movement was in full swing during the early 1900s. Who, specifically, would have held those gun-hating forces in check better than the NRA? If there were better groups, why didn't THEY save us from these terrible court cases? If you can't identify better groups, then how can you ignore the fact that those gun-hating forces would have operated unchecked until all gun rights were destroyed?

TFred
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
In fairness, who substantiates VCDL's perception of goodness this new massive gathering of citizens is in fact contacting, participating, voting, ad nauseam ~ wait, of course everyone takes VCDL's word...never mind!
Everyone judges for themselves of course, but when I see the gun-haters and their puppet media attacking VCDL for everything they do, well, let's just say it gives me warm fuzzies.

Those folks are way too smart to waste resources attacking ineffective enemies.

TFred
 

Va_Nemo

Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
653
Location
Lynchburg
Getting spread more. Expand and take a moment and enjoy a view of the Virginia State Capitol. Then click the link to read the entire article. Or just read the expanded below to get a taste to decide to finish reading. It will likely answer some questions that have been posted around here too.

Nemo

https://freebeacon.com/issues/like-...declare-themselves-2nd-amendment-sanctuaries/

‘Like a Freight Train’: 9 Out of 10 Virginia Counties Declare Themselves 2nd Amendment Sanctuaries
Stephen Gutowski - December 20, 2019 10:00 AM

GettyImages-1095064214-736x514.jpg

The Virginia State Capitol in downtown Richmond, Virginia / Getty Images

The grassroots push for Virginia counties to say they won't enforce gun bans even if passed by the state legislature is spreading "like a freight train," with nearly 9 out of 10 counties in the state declaring themselves "Second Amendment sanctuaries" and thousands of people expected to show up for a pro-gun rally in the state capital next month.

"It's been like a freight train," said Philip Van Cleave, whose Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) has helped organize the sanctuary movement. "It started moving and it's moving under its own weight at this point. It's amazing."

Van Cleave said the group is doing everything it can to leverage the energy of the "Second Amendment sanctuary" movement which has swept across the state at breakneck speed the past few weeks. As of Friday, 85 counties, 9 cities, and 17 towns had formally declared themselves sanctuaries, according to the gun-rights group.

If even a fraction of the tens of thousands of people who showed up to county board meetings show up at VCDL's Jan. 20 lobby day rally in Richmond, Van Cleave said it will be the biggest event the group has ever held. He is hopeful that bringing the state's gun-rights supporters, who have shown up in droves for meetings across the state, to the statehouse will send a message to the newly elected Democratic majority and dampen remaining enthusiasm for new gun-control legislation.

Van Cleave said he thinks some lawmakers have underestimated the sanctuary movement.

. . .

continued
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,848
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
let's put your NRA perspective into reality
1. NRA was founded by Union generals after the civil war [1871] to assist the nation's citizens to learn how to improve their shoot skills. Thus this nation's premier firearm training organization was created ~ the training section is still the most viable training entity recognized around the world by this nation & other countries law enforcement agencies and citizens.
2. O/A late seventies an outside group had a bloodless coup and the annual meeting to overthrow the incumbent BoDs and formed the ILA division to interface with legislative bodies regarding firearm legislation.
3. Over the decades the ILA has blemished the NRA's good name with their nefarious dealings with the legislative slime while the training section continued their exemplary training activities!

In fairness, who substantiates VCDL's perception of goodness this new massive gathering of citizens is in fact contacting, participating, voting, ad nauseam ~ wait, of course everyone takes VCDL's word...never mind!

btw, does VCDL contribute member's dues directly to individual state level candidate?

disparage...the VCDL organization has been in existence since 1994 ~ hummm therefore, unless of course these crises manifested themselves overnight, how did these situation arise unnoticed within the great state of VA, then?
No, it dos not, as it is prohibited by law from doing so. However, VCDL has a PAC (VCDL-PAC) which accepts contributions and donates to candidates/campaigns.
 
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