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Had my first somewhat negative experience.. In a gun shop no less..

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
So I stopped in at Ed's Gun Shop in Vass this afternoon to see if they had finally received the new Springfield XDs in yet. Surprisingly, they did. Not surprisingly, it was spoken for. Anyway, I wanted to actually see and hold it since it's extremely high on my list for my next gun, so Ed got it from the back and let me hold it. I had recently purchased an XDm 45 Compact 3.8 from him a couple weeks ago, and wanted to see how it compared. Anyway, as I've done during all my past visits, I was OC my G27 in a Blackhawk SERPA. So, after fondling the XDs a bit, and picking up a couple items, I proceeded to the front desk to check out. He rung up my items, and as an afterthought, I asked him where the XD holsters were. Wanted to see if they had a SERPA specifically for my new XDm. He walked me over to the rack to show me. Anyway, we were talking a bit, and after he showed me a non retention paddle for my XDm, I told him I preferred a locking one like my SERPA and motioned to the one on my hip. Now, mind you, every store employee, including this clerk, has an openly carried firearm on their side. Many even have at least one backup concealed elsewhere. Anyway, here's where it got interesting...

Clerk: Are you LEO?
Me: Nope, just a law abiding citizen.
Clerk: Do you have a Concealed Permit?
Me: Yep, just prefer open carry as opposed to concealed.
Clerk: Well, next time you come, you need to cover it up.
Me: Oh really?!? Why is that?
Clerk: It's store policy.
Me: Since when? I've open carried in here many times, and Ed has never said anything to me about it.
Clerk: Well, it's a new policy.
Me: So you mean to tell me, putting a t-shirt over my firearm somehow makes it safer?
Clerk: Well, no, but we've had some issues lately, so it needs to be covered up.

We walk back to the register to complete my sale, and I told the guy to hold on a bit. I walked back to the gun room to go find out directly from Ed himself, because I felt this guy was feeding me a line of crap. I walked up to Ed and said, "Hey, I was just told by the guy at the front counter that I was not allowed to open carry in the store (motioning to my hip)." He said, "Somebody has misinformed you. You are most certainly allowed to open or concealed carry in here. Sounds like I need to go correct someone..."

Well, I walked back to the counter, and was about to tell the guy he should check with Ed regarding this policy of his when Ed walked to the front counter himself, and told the guy that both open carry and concealed carry is allowed in the store. He said they just require all weapons to remain holstered. This is to prevent an individual from pulling out their pistol to check holster fit in the store, which has happened before.

Anyway, I could almost feel the heat coming from the clerk's face after Ed told him what was up. It was obvious he didn't appreciate me going to the man himself, and then getting told he was wrong in front of me. I paid for my things, and said, "Have a good one." and walked away. For some reason, the clerk didn't return the sentiment. Oh well. I almost can't help but wonder if the clerk was a retired LEO who still feels ordinary citizens shouldn't be allowed to open carry. The last place I ever expected to get confronted for open carry is at a gun shop.
 
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Truckdriver1975

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
56
Location
Lansing, MI
I had a retired LEO at a small gun shop in MI advise me against OC and give the usual "targeted for your gun" reason. He has no problem with carrying in the shop and had even let me unholster and clear my XDM40 to try out a holster. I told him my wife and I were getting interested in OC and it felt like he was trying to tell me in a polite way that I'm a freaking idiot. I've OCd in there since then and he hasn't mentioned it so I continue to shop there.
 

nobama

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
756
Location
, ,
I had a retired LEO at a small gun shop in MI advise me against OC and give the usual "targeted for your gun" reason. He has no problem with carrying in the shop and had even let me unholster and clear my XDM40 to try out a holster. I told him my wife and I were getting interested in OC and it felt like he was trying to tell me in a polite way that I'm a freaking idiot. I've OCd in there since then and he hasn't mentioned it so I continue to shop there.

I OCed today at the Gun Rack in Kville, which I always do and those guys are cool, I know at least one is a retired LEO. They just want it to stay holstered,which I understand completely. You did right.
 

62 Caddy

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
82
Location
Raleigh, NC
So I stopped in at Ed's Gun Shop in Vass this afternoon to see if they had finally received the new Springfield XDs in yet. Surprisingly, they did. Not surprisingly, it was spoken for. Anyway, I wanted to actually see and hold it since it's extremely high on my list for my next gun, so Ed got it from the back and let me hold it. I had recently purchased an XDm 45 Compact 3.8 from him a couple weeks ago, and wanted to see how it compared. Anyway, as I've done during all my past visits, I was OC my G27 in a Blackhawk SERPA. So, after fondling the XDs a bit, and picking up a couple items, I proceeded to the front desk to check out. He rung up my items, and as an afterthought, I asked him where the XD holsters were. Wanted to see if they had a SERPA specifically for my new XDm. He walked me over to the rack to show me. Anyway, we were talking a bit, and after he showed me a non retention paddle for my XDm, I told him I preferred a locking one like my SERPA and motioned to the one on my hip. Now, mind you, every store employee, including this clerk, has an openly carried firearm on their side. Many even have at least one backup concealed elsewhere. Anyway, here's where it got interesting...

Clerk: Are you LEO?
Me: Nope, just a law abiding citizen.
Clerk: Do you have a Concealed Permit?
Me: Yep, just prefer open carry as opposed to concealed.
Clerk: Well, next time you come, you need to cover it up.
Me: Oh really?!? Why is that?
Clerk: It's store policy.
Me: Since when? I've open carried in here many times, and Ed has never said anything to me about it.
Clerk: Well, it's a new policy.
Me: So you mean to tell me, putting a t-shirt over my firearm somehow makes it safer?
Clerk: Well, no, but we've had some issues lately, so it needs to be covered up.

We walk back to the register to complete my sale, and I told the guy to hold on a bit. I walked back to the gun room to go find out directly from Ed himself, because I felt this guy was feeding me a line of crap. I walked up to Ed and said, "Hey, I was just told by the guy at the front counter that I was not allowed to open carry in the store (motioning to my hip)." He said, "Somebody has misinformed you. You are most certainly allowed to open or concealed carry in here. Sounds like I need to go correct someone..."

Well, I walked back to the counter, and was about to tell the guy he should check with Ed regarding this policy of his when Ed walked to the front counter himself, and told the guy that both open carry and concealed carry is allowed in the store. He said they just require all weapons to remain holstered. This is to prevent an individual from pulling out their pistol to check holster fit in the store, which has happened before.

Anyway, I could almost feel the heat coming from the clerk's face after Ed told him what was up. It was obvious he didn't appreciate me going to the man himself, and then getting told he was wrong in front of me. I paid for my things, and said, "Have a good one." and walked away. For some reason, the clerk didn't return the sentiment. Oh well. I almost can't help but wonder if the clerk was a retired LEO who still feels ordinary citizens shouldn't be allowed to open carry. The last place I ever expected to get confronted for open carry is at a gun shop.

I have to say first impressions are everything, the one time I went to Ed's the guys working there were a bit unfriendly to the point of rude. I decided they didn't want my business. Went to Fuquay Gun and Gold and found they were very personable and knowledgeable and helpful. My wife and I have bought several guns from them. Good people. Ed needs to educate his staff.
 

ncwabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
you should be thankful ed let you in w/a loaded firearm...WTs in Goldsboro has huge signage stating 'no loaded firearms' plastered at their front door. cruise into wild indian or four seasons and nobody bats an eye...service is great too. I have traveled to Fuquay's firearm stores and found them quite exemplary...

wabbit
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
To me, it's surprising that people give up information to a clerk. I'd have said 'That's none of your business what my occupation is'. I don't think I'd have told him if I had a permit either. That's when you go to the owner, since you know him and say the clerk is being impolite (at best). But, in this case, it turned out to be the best method for educating.

In addition, I think I'd have gone back to the owner and told him the clerk is still being obnoxious, not returning your sentiments to have a good day and as you don't want to have hard feelings, the owner needs to intercede again and make sure the clerk knows it is perfectly OK for you to have talked to the owner and he's glad you did and to chill out about it.

You don't want to have further (trumped up?) issues with this clerk - perhaps him telling the owner you did or said something you did not as a form of misguided retribution. At any rate be careful when you go in there next time. I don't like this clerk's attitude.
 

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
To me, it's surprising that people give up information to a clerk. I'd have said 'That's none of your business what my occupation is'. I don't think I'd have told him if I had a permit either. That's when you go to the owner, since you know him and say the clerk is being impolite (at best). But, in this case, it turned out to be the best method for educating.


I understand where you're coming from, but being in a gun store with like minded people (for the most part) I don't mind chatting about these things. Besides, I was curious where he was going with it. Im also not comfortable being a *****, even if he had no need for that info. Much easier for me to answer the question than try to be an a$$ and tell him it's none of his business what i do. Ed handled it, and that's all I care about.
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
I understand where you're coming from, but being in a gun store with like minded people (for the most part) I don't mind chatting about these things. Besides, I was curious where he was going with it. Im also not comfortable being a *****, even if he had no need for that info. Much easier for me to answer the question than try to be an a$$ and tell him it's none of his business what i do. Ed handled it, and that's all I care about.

What you do is redirect, side-step or use humor. If you can't do that without being an arse, then perhaps say nothing and ask to speak to the owner (a redirect).
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
"Somewhat negative"? I'd say that was an outstanding encounter!

Gun shop clerks are probably the only source of legal advice who are consistently worse than police officers. Sadly, that attitude usually comes from the top. To see an owner correct misinformation on the spot is wonderful.
 

razor_baghdad

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
277
Location
CONUS ~for now~
"Somewhat negative"? I'd say that was an outstanding encounter!

Gun shop clerks are probably the only source of legal advice who are consistently worse than police officers. Sadly, that attitude usually comes from the top. To see an owner correct misinformation on the spot is wonderful.

This post is on the mark. ;)

I'd be surprised if the clerk last long at Ed's, hell, I'd be surprised if he works there now. I'm also surprised that Ed didn't lay out the store rules when he hired this moron. WTH. ;(
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
OP you handled it well, I haven't been in Ed's in a few years, but then I haven't been in any gunshop in years. It is not a good idea to put on a rude face in any place that can ban you. I get asked if I am a LEO all the time even though I have long hair and a beard, and that happens even when I am not armed. I do not see anything wrong with the clerk asking you if you are a LEO, he was out of line when he started making his own policies though. Politely going to the boss is the smart thing to do. I do disagree with you as to him being a retired LEO, I am and I support the right to bear arms, and that IMO is open carry. Concealed carry in NC is a privilege otherwise we would not need a permit. Not all LEOs have a burr up their arse.
 

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC
you should be thankful ed let you in w/a loaded firearm...WTs in Goldsboro has huge signage stating 'no loaded firearms' plastered at their front door. cruise into wild indian or four seasons and nobody bats an eye...service is great too. I have traveled to Fuquay's firearm stores and found them quite exemplary...

wabbit

I got my XD .45 from WTs because I got a great deal on a trade. But after I discovered Four Seasons right down the road from my house I decided I'll never step foot in WTs again. Screw those guys. If I ever get stationed in Goldsboro again FS is my one stop, only shop.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
you should be thankful ed let you in w/a loaded firearm...WTs in Goldsboro has huge signage stating 'no loaded firearms' plastered at their front door. cruise into wild indian or four seasons and nobody bats an eye...service is great too. I have traveled to Fuquay's firearm stores and found them quite exemplary...

wabbit

has anyone gave "WTs" a " NO GUN = NO MONEY" cards, or made a contact as to why they are anti gun
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
OP you handled it well, I haven't been in Ed's in a few years, but then I haven't been in any gunshop in years. It is not a good idea to put on a rude face in any place that can ban you. I get asked if I am a LEO all the time even though I have long hair and a beard, and that happens even when I am not armed.

That's not my point so I may have made it poorly. Whenever anyone asks you if you are a LEO, they do not really care if you are a LEO, they want a platform to direct your actions, tell you to do something, deny you your rights, insert their own agenda.

Does anyone really think the person would say 'Oh, good, I like OC-ers and don't prefer LEOs'? No. They're trying to insert their agenda and they have no right to do so to a private citizen.

So, my SUGGESTION is that when asked you redirect, you use humor, you ask them a question. 'Why, do you have something against LEOs?' That would stop them in their tracks because they are NOT going to say 'oh no, I was just going to try and deny you your 2A rights'.

But if you want them to be IN CHARGE of you via their obnoxious questioning (and you don't have to return their obnoxious behavior by any means. Be polite, engaging, re-direct), then be my guest. It's a strategy, like 'verbal judo', to keep the ball in your court.
 

madcitysw

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
35
Location
Selma, NC
Umm I was always wonder why they don't allow to have guns carried into their store and yet seems a couple of the employees behind the gun showcase wears several of them on their sides. In a way, that seems unfair lol.

you should be thankful ed let you in w/a loaded firearm...WTs in Goldsboro has huge signage stating 'no loaded firearms' plastered at their front door. cruise into wild indian or four seasons and nobody bats an eye...service is great too. I have traveled to Fuquay's firearm stores and found them quite exemplary...

wabbit
 

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
That's not my point so I may have made it poorly. Whenever anyone asks you if you are a LEO, they do not really care if you are a LEO, they want a platform to direct your actions, tell you to do something, deny you your rights, insert their own agenda.

Does anyone really think the person would say 'Oh, good, I like OC-ers and don't prefer LEOs'? No. They're trying to insert their agenda and they have no right to do so to a private citizen.

So, my SUGGESTION is that when asked you redirect, you use humor, you ask them a question. 'Why, do you have something against LEOs?' That would stop them in their tracks because they are NOT going to say 'oh no, I was just going to try and deny you your 2A rights'.

But if you want them to be IN CHARGE of you via their obnoxious questioning (and you don't have to return their obnoxious behavior by any means. Be polite, engaging, re-direct), then be my guest. It's a strategy, like 'verbal judo', to keep the ball in your court.

I guess being relatively new to OC, I'm not as quick on my toes when it comes to questioning. Besides, I have been asked several times by average Joes if I'm LEO simply because they don't realize OC is legal. For them, I have no problems stating I'm not, at which point I begin to inform them of the law regarding OC. Honestly, I didn't think the guy at the store was going to take the stance he did, especially since my past visits at the store had proven to me OC was allowed. Quite frankly he just caught me off guard since when he asked, he didn't have a tone indicating he was grilling me. No big deal. All worked out in the end.

Edited to add: something I failed to mention earlier is that they do have a sign on the door that states "Concealed weapons must remain concealed while in the store". This is to prevent folks from pulling their weapon out to try a holster fit, or to show their gun to someone in the store, all things that have happened in the past. I guess it's possible (and even somewhat understandable) the clerk took that policy as to mean concealed carry was all that was allowed if the staff hadn't been told anything else regarding customer carry. At any rate, the staff has been re-educated regarding customer carry.
 
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ArmySoldier22

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
406
Location
Concord, NC
That's not my point so I may have made it poorly. Whenever anyone asks you if you are a LEO, they do not really care if you are a LEO, they want a platform to direct your actions, tell you to do something, deny you your rights, insert their own agenda.

While that does happen a lot, it's not always true. I've turned quite a few people on to OCing because of conversations that stemmed from that exact question. A LOT of people just don't know that OCing even exists, and the only time they see a weapon out in the open is on a LEO, so they tend to make that connection in their mind. Half of the conversations I've had that started with that question, went very pleasantly, and a couple of them have even started OCing now.
 
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NC-Heel

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
326
Location
Charlotte, NC
something I failed to mention earlier is that they do have a sign on the door that states "Concealed weapons must remain concealed while in the store"
That sign makes no sense and IS what probably lead to the misunderstanding. A sign that reads "All weapons must be holstered, cased or flagged while in the store" is more appropriate. I usually carry concealed and the first thing I do when walking into a gun store is transition to open carry. I want everyone to know who is armed. That sign means open carry is OK. It is OK to go from OC to CC while in the store. It is OK to CC but it is not OK to go from CC to OC while in the store. The sign stops no one from trying holsters that is OC'ing.
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
While that does happen a lot, it's not always true. I've turned quite a few people on to OCing because of conversations that stemmed from that exact question. A LOT of people just don't know that OCing even exists, and the only time they see a weapon out in the open is on a LEO, so they tend to make that connection in their mind. Half of the conversations I've had that started with that question, went very pleasantly, and a couple of them have even started OCing now.

Didn't think I'd have to spell it out, but a lot of this stuff is about 'OPTIONS'. You have the option to carry, you have the option to avoid, you have the option to use a firing solution (very limited), you have the option to educate, or defuse, or redirect. You have the option to be super-cooperative with a LEO, or an option to stand your 2A and 4A ground.

Though it seems like people (me?) talk in B&W terms, it's just passion for the current commentary. I might, in reality, operate completely differently from my postings on any issue. But I can passionately argue a stance or a position, while not being wedded to it. You must use your judgment. BUT, if you have never considered options, then you're welded to the ground, able to react only one way.

Just as the lady who didn't want to be a compliant Asian lady as in her past, she had limited her options and the VERY TIME she needed to access (acting like in the movies?) that compliant, let it go stance, she had limited herself due to setting up the limits on her options and it kept her from reacting the best way for her at the time. We should all have all options available, on the table, from super nice to super nasty, and pick the right one (like Golidlocks). Many times a good person picking the wrong option ends up with a very bad outcome.

So if you have a 'quiver' of options when you're asked 'are you a LEO?' then you pick humor, or deflection, or redirection, or candor, or even anger (why are you bugging me, go away - rarely). You can't be 100% sure you picked the right one but if EVERY TIME you fall for the 'are you a LEO' line then what have you gained? You set yourself up you let the other person take the ball and run with it and you're stuck, helplessly being led around by their agenda.

HTH
===
Edit to add: how very horrible it would be for that lady to have to say 'OH, I shot someone over a hamburger...I couldn't let it go and got pushed into a corner'. It's silly, but at the time, we get blinders on. So she got through it but now can use it as a learning opportunity about picking right options and not being cornered by her own need to redefine or define her character (I'm not a timid weak person) - heck sometimes it's good to be able to act like one - it throws off the BG's game and lets you have that window of opportunity to switch and act.
 
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