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HB 817 and SB 503 ~ repeal Pistol Purchase Permits (PPP)

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
well if one gets the NRA-ILA notifications, they may be aware of the 'new' (read trying again) submissions to the NC legislature by those lackeys in cahoots with the NRA.

2017 HB 817: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2017&BillID=H817

2017 SB 503: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2017&BillID=sb+503&submitButton=Go

facts to consider:

1. with PPPs ($5, 14 days issuance, good for 5 years) or CHP/CCW ($60 +/- for mandatory 8 + hours training, $80 +/-, 45 days issuance, good for 5 years) NC citizens do not need to subject themselves to the FBI's NICS Brady check! (https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart)

2. the NC highest elected peace officer, local county Sheriff, have a better handle on those scofflaws within their county, thus insuring those who truly do not need access to firearms are denied, especially after citizens enduring background, mental health, and fingerprint checks and so forth which the FBI's NICS system does not accomplish nor currently have access to.

3. last time NRA pushed this self serving agenda, the NC Sheriff's Association had a fit and those bills quickly sank into the sunset of the coal ash ponds throughout the state!

ipse
 

bc.cruiser

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Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
In the repeal of the PPP (H817) is something that has always amazed me: That blank pistols were "may issue" while real guns are "shall issue".

I think S503 is the better bill.

I don't think much of the chances for either bill, given how much credence the NC Legislature gives the NCSA over the citizenry. The NCSA has always been self-serving, promoting their supposed knowledge of the people in their respective counties. Gee, the sheriff won't okay me to buy a pistol so I'll buy a shotgun or rifle since he can't stop that.

Even with the PPP and the CHP, dealers could, and often did, conduct the NICS checks.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
In the repeal of the PPP (H817) is something that has always amazed me: That blank pistols were "may issue" while real guns are "shall issue".

I think S503 is the better bill.

I don't think much of the chances for either bill, given how much credence the NC Legislature gives the NCSA over the citizenry. The NCSA has always been self-serving, promoting their supposed knowledge of the people in their respective counties. Gee, the sheriff won't okay me to buy a pistol so I'll buy a shotgun or rifle since he can't stop that.

Even with the PPP and the CHP, dealers could, and often did, conduct the NICS checks.

box stores still force NC citizens to endure the FBI's NICS checks for handguns mainly cuz the states citizens are not savvy enough about their consumer rights.

I am more amazed the NRA has convinced their NC legislative lackeys to again introduce the concept after getting trounced upon by NCSA last year.

I believe it is much to ado about nothing and both bills will languish and perish a horrible death come July 2017.

ipse
 

Nascar24Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
252
Location
Johnson City, TN
well if one gets the NRA-ILA notifications, they may be aware of the 'new' (read trying again) submissions to the NC legislature by those lackeys in cahoots with the NRA.

2017 HB 817: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2017&BillID=H817

2017 SB 503: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2017&BillID=sb+503&submitButton=Go

facts to consider:

1. with PPPs ($5, 14 days issuance, good for 5 years) or CHP/CCW ($60 +/- for mandatory 8 + hours training, $80 +/-, 45 days issuance, good for 5 years) NC citizens do not need to subject themselves to the FBI's NICS Brady check! (https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart)

2. the NC highest elected peace officer, local county Sheriff, have a better handle on those scofflaws within their county, thus insuring those who truly do not need access to firearms are denied, especially after citizens enduring background, mental health, and fingerprint checks and so forth which the FBI's NICS system does not accomplish nor currently have access to.

3. last time NRA pushed this self serving agenda, the NC Sheriff's Association had a fit and those bills quickly sank into the sunset of the coal ash ponds throughout the state!

ipse

1. Even with a repeal of the pistol purchase permit, the CHP/CCW exemption should still be good provided North Carolina continues to meet the requirements for it.

2. I take issue with this. If a person is not disqualified under a specific Federal or state criteria, that person should not be prevented from owning a pistol or other firearm. I don't think a sheriff or anyone else should have the ability to arbitrarily deny someone a fundamental constitutional right based on the subjective criteria that the person is not of "good moral character" or even just the whim or personal bias of the sheriff/etc. I also think a purchase permit is an unconstitutional prior restraint and infringement on the 2nd amendment.
 
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solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
1. Even with a repeal of the pistol purchase permit, the CHP/CCW exemption should still be good provided North Carolina continues to meet the requirements for it.

2. I take issue with this. If a person is not disqualified under a specific Federal or state criteria, that person should not be prevented from owning a pistol or other firearm. I don't think a sheriff or anyone else should have the ability to arbitrarily deny someone a fundamental constitutional right based on the subjective criteria that the person is not of "good moral character" or even just the whim or personal bias of the sheriff/etc. I also think a purchase permit is an unconstitutional prior restraint and infringement on the 2nd amendment.

so those social economically distressed NC citizen need to spend $60 for training, then give the sheriff $80 verses $5 for a PPP?

so other folk do not arbitrarily get denied by NICS of their blah blah rights, but you are right there are no whims involved, just key punch entry errors that system doesn't approve everyone automatically.

and you feel the enhanced data flow of NC citizen's misdeeds, real or perceived, and mental health status into the FBI's national database would increase the citizen's approval chances? come on now, the NICS database already has enough material to regularly deny citizen's bkgnd requests and trying to overcome those type of data errors from afar would be a tremendously enormous task for our citizens who are still subjectively unable to purchase a handgun.

finally, re-read the 4473 questions, gee, NC citizens still answer those same set of questions and then no worry if the NICS is working, nada, no phone to the FBI NICS has to made at all, just a photocopy made of CHP or hand the FFL the PPP and the NC citizen walks with their newly purchased handgun - done!

while preceived as arcaic seems to on a state level, like VA, AL and other states oh lookie even WV with its state issued permit qualifying exempt to NICS.

PPP is cheaper version of the chp

ipse
 

Nascar24Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
252
Location
Johnson City, TN
so those social economically distressed NC citizen need to spend $60 for training, then give the sheriff $80 verses $5 for a PPP?

so other folk do not arbitrarily get denied by NICS of their blah blah rights, but you are right there are no whims involved, just key punch entry errors that system doesn't approve everyone automatically.

and you feel the enhanced data flow of NC citizen's misdeeds, real or perceived, and mental health status into the FBI's national database would increase the citizen's approval chances? come on now, the NICS database already has enough material to regularly deny citizen's bkgnd requests and trying to overcome those type of data errors from afar would be a tremendously enormous task for our citizens who are still subjectively unable to purchase a handgun.

finally, re-read the 4473 questions, gee, NC citizens still answer those same set of questions and then no worry if the NICS is working, nada, no phone to the FBI NICS has to made at all, just a photocopy made of CHP or hand the FFL the PPP and the NC citizen walks with their newly purchased handgun - done!

while preceived as arcaic seems to on a state level, like VA, AL and other states oh lookie even WV with its state issued permit qualifying exempt to NICS.

PPP is cheaper version of the chp

ipse

Or how about running the background check via the Federal NICS for free (or whatever nominal fee the gun dealer decides to charge; Tennessee is a point of contact state; so I'm not familiar with a state that exclusively uses the Federal NICS)? I take a big issue with the situation when a state (as opposed to a private individual, like a gun dealer) charges a fee for the exercise of a fundamental, constitutional right. That holds true even if the fee is as small as $5 or, really, even one penny; it's the principle of it for me.

"...and you feel the enhanced data flow of NC citizen's misdeeds, real or perceived, and mental health status into the FBI's national database would increase the citizen's approval chances? " I'm not sure what you mean here. It's my understanding that the NICS database is supposed to have only information that would meet one of the statutory disqualifiers under Federal law. Failing to be "of good moral character" is not among them. And yes, I think a person of "bad moral character" that otherwise has no statutory disqualifiers can, and should, have the right to own and purchase a gun.

"while preceived as arcaic seems to on a state level, like VA, AL and other states oh lookie even WV with its state issued permit qualifying exempt to NICS." For residents of those states, they certainly have the option to skip the NICS check if they have a concealed permit. Or, they can just have the Federal NICS background check for no charge or for whatever nominal charge the gun dealer decides to tack on. And if there are no issues, they can walk into the gun store and walk out with their gun in 20 minutes. In North Carolina, there's a waiting period to get the PPP.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
might wish to read some of the horror storys floating on the threads about the magic word from NICS ~ 'denied'.

might wish to ping MSGT L from northwest WA about his trial and tribulations...i believe he has a recurring issue!

do you truly feel those states who run their own state level NICS do it for the good of their citizens and without cost to all of the state's citizens who are taxpayers but not firearm owners?

if, NCIS is so great...why don't the states save the $$$$ instead pushing for their own system?

nawlll, at least with the NC system, those who need the service pay for it, and there are two plans, economy, aka PPP, or deluxe, aka chp.

ipse
 

WalkingWolf

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
The problem with the PPP is it's roots in racism, today the system is the same for all people. I would not want to see it taken away completely, more of an optional firearm purchase permit. It would cover both long guns, and pistols, and be renewed every five years instead of one permit per pistol. This gives the non CHP holder the same option as the CHP holder. The PPP has been a major PITA for conceal carry gun organizations because they use the selling factor of not waiting on insta checks. Another situation of follow the money.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
The problem with the PPP is it's roots in racism, today the system is the same for all people. I would not want to see it taken away completely, more of an optional firearm purchase permit. It would cover both long guns, and pistols, and be renewed every five years instead of one permit per pistol. This gives the non CHP holder the same option as the CHP holder. The PPP has been a major PITA for conceal carry gun organizations because they use the selling factor of not waiting on insta checks. Another situation of follow the money.

valid assessment and option...

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
GREAT NEWS...

the NC news media today announced the NC Legislature is this afternoon going to discuss and push a very important pending legislative bill...

the creation of a fried chicken festival the third weekend in May down in Fayettville!!

Seriously, this silly crap was broadcast across the news today!!

and here i thought HB2 was egregiously stupid...

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
may these bills rest in peace

they passed in peace resting on the table...

ipse
 
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