HB927 Summary

[REDFIVE48]

My bad. I usually try to read these things a little more carefully, but there was so much crap in that bill about other stuff that I probably glazed over it by the time I got there.

I hear you! I had to filter out the noise in the bill to get to the parts that were important, then pay real close attention to those sections. It makes me wonder if they purposely worded the sections differently or was it an oversight and they actually wanted the restaurant and admission section to also read concealed carry of a handgun? I'm guessing that they did want specifically limited to concealed carry, but didn't reconcile the wording in each section to ensure uniformity.

Should make for an interesting update to the pamphlet

 

[dmatting]

I hear you! I had to filter out the noise in the bill to get to the parts that were important, then pay real close attention to those sections. It makes me wonder if they purposely worded the sections differently or was it an oversight and they actually wanted the restaurant and admission section to also read concealed carry of a handgun? I'm guessing that they did want specifically limited to concealed carry, but didn't reconcile the wording in each section to ensure uniformity.

Should make for an interesting update to the pamphlet

I just got done looking at the bill a lot closer and going back and forth between the referenced sections and such. What got me to really get into it is that (on another forum) there are a bunch of people wanting standardized signage law now that they will be able to carry into Applebees. Their gripe is that they could get hit with a Class 1 misdemeanor if they're caught carrying in a place that has a conspicuous sign posted against carrying there. The problem is that, prior to HB937, they would have gotten hit with a Class 2 misdemeanor for doing the same thing at any other conspicuously posted private location but no one was bitching about that. On top of it all, the law already says that you can lose your CHP if you violate any terms of Article 54B - and they only have complaints now that they can get into the Lonestar. It is somewhat disingenuous, if you ask me.

For citing purpose...

Punishments for misdemeanors:
http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/Councils/spac/Documents/misdemeanorpunishmentchart.pdf

14-415.11 section c subsection 8, paraphrased by me reads:
a [concealed handgun] permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun on any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

14-415.11 is part of Article 54B and another part of that article is 14-415.18(a)(4) which is paraphrased as:
The sheriff of the county where the permit was issued or the sheriff of the county where the person resides may revoke a permit subsequent to a hearing for the violation of any of the terms of this Article

and 14-415.21(b) is what already had them at a Class 2 misdemeanor for carrying concealed where it was posted conspicuously.

 

[WalkingWolf]

How many actually arrests have been made on carrying concealed in a posted business? Or a business that serves alcohol, without a charge for another crime?

 

[American Patriot]

Sounds like we are just going around and around on this. Under the old law, "normal mortals" could not carry (CC or OC) at a parade. Under the new law, "slightly elevated mortals" with a CHP are allowed to CC at a parade, but "normal mortals" and the "slightly elevated mortals" are NOT allowed to OC.

Yeah! I noticed you going in circles. Where in my post that you quoted did I refer to a parade or any other placed. I merely posted: "A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC."

You are changing the dynamics and then disagreeing with yourself.

 

[carolina guy]

How many actually arrests have been made on carrying concealed in a posted business? Or a business that serves alcohol, without a charge for another crime?

Excellent question...my guess is VERY very few, if any.

 

[XD40sc]

How many actually arrests have been made on carrying concealed in a posted business? Or a business that serves alcohol, without a charge for another crime?

Probably the same number that have been arrested for concealed carry without a permit and no other crime. Very few. Or possession of a firearm by a felon and no other crime.

 

[carolina guy]

Yeah! I noticed you going in circles. Where in my post that you quoted did I refer to a parade or any other placed. I merely posted: "A CHP is a permit to carry concealed....there is no permit to OC."

You are changing the dynamics and then disagreeing with yourself.

(*SHRUG*)

You may want to go back and re-read posts #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 with special emphasis on #6 to understand my reply. Or...just wait until Oct 1 and OC at a parade and find out for yourself. Your call. And again... (*SHRUG*)

 

[WalkingWolf]

Excellent question...my guess is VERY very few, if any.

I have not seen or heard of any. Any arrests that have been made are from a supporting charge, much the same as the GFSZA. It just is not and has not ever been a problem. And every single CHP carrier that I have asked carry concealed whether there is a sign or not, or whether the business sells alcohol for consumption. This law was not needed and put in place solely to head unlicensed OC off at the pass to prevent a court case that would have given a right instead of a privilege. IOW they gave the courts a out IF they were presented with such a case. Same a the CHP trunk law, completely stupid and idiotic waste of paper.

 

[carolina guy]

I have not seen or heard of any. Any arrests that have been made are from a supporting charge, much the same as the GFSZA. It just is not and has not ever been a problem. And every single CHP carrier that I have asked carry concealed whether there is a sign or not, or whether the business sells alcohol for consumption. This law was not needed and put in place solely to head unlicensed OC off at the pass to prevent a court case that would have given a right instead of a privilege. IOW they gave the courts a out IF they were presented with such a case. Same a the CHP trunk law, completely stupid and idiotic waste of paper.

+1

I was going to mention the GFSZ... I think they are getting to the point where the GA has let CC, despite it being against the NC Constitution get common enough that they may be losing their ability to claim it is a compelling state interest to restrict it. Oh well...I fall on the side of let anyone carry and hold them fully accountable for their actions.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Probably the same number that have been arrested for concealed carry without a permit and no other crime. Very few. Or possession of a firearm by a felon and no other crime.

Before LEOSA I carried, no matter what. Never a problem, except I hate being uncomfortable concealing a firearm. But I also used good common sense. I carried a handgun that could be completely concealed(PA-63), I stayed out of places with known problems, and I kept my big mouth shut, until now. The people of NC have been bamboozled, they have been sold a privilege that always have had, all to keep the concealed carry industry in bucks.

I even had a NC trooper see my handgun while I was helping him on the highway BEFORE CHP. My jacket swung open to reveal my SA Colt revolver. I had threw on the jacket to help him with livestock on the highway. Fortunately most troopers have common sense, shame I can't say that for our lobbyists, and politicians. He even asked me what kind of revolver I was carrying, after that we shook hands and parted ways. Until post 9/11 most police officers just did not care, I didn't while I was a LEO.

I grew up with a mother that always carried a colt 25ACP in her purse, my father always had a gun in his vehicle. This was pretty much normal back in those days, even though it was against the law to conceal.

 

[American Patriot]

(*SHRUG*)

You may want to go back and re-read posts #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 with special emphasis on #6 to understand my reply. Or...just wait until Oct 1 and OC at a parade and find out for yourself. Your call. And again... (*SHRUG*)

If you are replying to posts nos. 3,4,5,6 and 7 with special emphasis on post #6 then you would do well to quote one of those posts especially post #6 and not have quoted post # 9. You broke the chain of evidence....er.....conversation when you jumped ahead to an unrelated comment. Perhaps it is you and not I that needs to go back and reread the flow of information.

It is with confusion such as you are experiencing that cause one to make a serious mistake in understanding and obeying the laws. (*SHRUG*)

 

[carolina guy]

If you are replying to posts nos. 3,4,5,6 and 7 with special emphasis on post #6 then you would do well to quote one of those posts especially post #6 and not have quoted post # 9. You broke the chain of evidence....er.....conversation when you jumped ahead to an unrelated comment. Perhaps it is you and not I that needs to go back and reread the flow of information.

It is with confusion such as you are experiencing that cause one to make a serious mistake in understanding and obeying the laws. (*SHRUG*)

Why? #9 refers to #5 by quoting it.

So, are you saying that a person can OC at a parade or not? Are you saying that someone with a CHP can OC at a parade? What exactly are you saying other than a CHP deals with concealed carry only...which it does not based on recent changes in NCGS??

Here is the relevant law directly from the NCGA:

§ 14-277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.(b) For the purposes of this section the term "dangerous weapon" shall include those weapons specified in G.S. 14-269, 14-269.2, 14-284.1, or 14-288.8 or any other object capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death when used as a weapon.(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b) or to persons authorized by State or federal law to carry dangerous weapons in the performance of their duties or to any person who obtains a permit to carry a dangerous weapon at a parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration from the sheriff or police chief, whichever is appropriate, of the locality where such parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration is to take place. (1981, c. 684, s. 1; 1983, c. 633; 1993, c. 412, s. 2; c. 539, s. 174; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997-238, s. 4.)

This is modified by HB937:

SECTION 15. G.S. 14‑277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:"(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, with a permit considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.25. This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

 

[American Patriot]

Why? #9 refers to #5 by quoting it.

So, are you saying that a person can OC at a parade or not? Are you saying that someone with a CHP can OC at a parade? What exactly are you saying other than a CHP deals with concealed carry only...which it does not based on recent changes in NCGS??

Here is the relevant law directly from the NCGA:



This is modified by HB937:

I will repeat again; A CHP is a Conceal Handgun Permit and it has nothing to do with OC. Wishful thinking will not make it so. The change in the parade and funeral procession prohibitions only allows a CHP holder to carry concealed at the events UNLESS as stated in subsection (d) "This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

If you notice the amended subsection is designated as paragraph (d) which follows paragraph (c). The subsection (d) is to add CHP to the exempt prohibitions.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b) or to persons authorized by State or federal law to carry dangerous weapons in the performance of their duties or to any person who obtains a permit to carry a dangerous weapon at a parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration from the sheriff or police chief, whichever is appropriate, of the locality where such parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration is to take place. (1981, c. 684, s. 1; 1983, c. 633; 1993, c. 412, s. 2; c. 539, s. 174; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997-238, s. 4.)

SECTION 15. G.S. 14‑277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:"(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, with a permit considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.25. This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

 

[carolina guy]

I will repeat again; A CHP is a Conceal Handgun Permit and it has nothing to do with OC. Wishful thinking will not make it so. The change in the parade and funeral procession prohibitions only allows a CHP holder to carry concealed at the events UNLESS as stated in subsection (d) "This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

If you notice the amended subsection is designated as paragraph (d) which follows paragraph (c). The subsection (d) is to add CHP to the exempt prohibitions.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b) or to persons authorized by State or federal law to carry dangerous weapons in the performance of their duties or to any person who obtains a permit to carry a dangerous weapon at a parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration from the sheriff or police chief, whichever is appropriate, of the locality where such parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration is to take place. (1981, c. 684, s. 1; 1983, c. 633; 1993, c. 412, s. 2; c. 539, s. 174; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997-238, s. 4.)

SECTION 15. G.S. 14‑277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:"(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, with a permit considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.25. This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

Ahh...grasshopper...you need to read the other changes...you can WITH A CHP, OC at a bar or restaurant that sells and serves alcohol for consumption, but where the owner does not otherwise prohibit weapons. You will NOT be able to OC at the same (legally) without a CHP. Of course, the same person with the CHP can also CC. So...you can see with one simple example, the CHP does in fact allow for OC. All thanks to the pro-CC crowd. Backatcha. (*Thumbs up*)

 

[American Patriot]

Ahh...grasshopper...you need to read the other changes...you can WITH A CHP, OC at a bar or restaurant that sells and serves alcohol for consumption, but where the owner does not otherwise prohibit weapons. You will NOT be able to OC at the same (legally) without a CHP. Of course, the same person with the CHP can also CC. So...you can see with one simple example, the CHP does in fact allow for OC. All thanks to the pro-CC crowd. Backatcha. (*Thumbs up*)

A CHP only gives privilege to Conceal Carry and does not affect OC. I realize that you would like to think a CHP has some benefit to OC......I suppose that is what dreams are made of....fantasies.

 

[carolina guy]

A CHP only gives privilege to Conceal Carry and does not affect OC. I realize that you would like to think a CHP has some benefit to OC......I suppose that is what dreams are made of....fantasies.

(*shakes head sadly*) (*gestures for the class*) And here students, is the human example of an ostrich -- hiding from the facts and written word of the NC General Assembly and paid lobbyists. And now to borrow a phrase from Eye95... "moving on".

 

[American Patriot]

(*shakes head sadly*) (*gestures for the class*) And here students, is the human example of an ostrich -- hiding from the facts and written word of the NC General Assembly and paid lobbyists. And now to borrow a phrase from Eye95... "moving on".

I figured you would see it my way once you were able to clear your head of all those dreams and illusions.