• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

House Bill 2 - Clarifying "concealed", and other changes

Gary Slider

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
68
Location
, ,
The licensing requirements of this section do not apply to the carrying by any person of a stun gun, pistol or revolver, knife, or other deadly weapon that is not concealed as defined in Section 97-37-1.

I take this to mean you can open carry without a permit/license after July 1, 2013. My understanding of the law now says you can open carry but must have a permit/license to do so. This makes Mississippi a true open carry state. Is that correct or am I misreading the bill?
 
Last edited:

4angrybadgers

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
411
Location
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
The licensing requirements of this section do not apply to the carrying by any person of a stun gun, pistol or revolver, knife, or other deadly weapon that is not concealed as defined in Section 97-37-1.

I take this to mean you can open carry without a permit/license after July 1, 2013. My understanding of the law now says you can open carry but must have a permit/license to do so. This makes Mississippi a true open carry state. Is that correct or am I misreading the bill?

There has never been a law or court case in Mississippi (as far as anyone on this forum can find) that stated open carry required a permit/license. The confusion arises from several things:
  1. The phrase "concealed in whole or in part" in the state laws regarding concealed carry.
  2. No definition or guidelines of what constitutes "concealment" in the state laws.
  3. A court case some years ago where the concurring opinion meandered on about an extreme definition of "concealment".
  4. A misguided AG decision last year that tried to rule out open carry, which contradicted itself so obviously a grade-school English teacher would have given it an "F".

This bill does not remove a licensing requirement from OC, as such a requirement was never defined. In fact, 45-9-101 (18) already stated (quite clearly!) that the permit/license did not apply to the "open and unconcealed" carry of a firearm. The bill does clear up the level of concealment in 97-37-1 (possibly elsewhere, I'm operating from memory) by removing the "or in part" language, and has a paragraph defining concealment.
 
Last edited:

Gary Slider

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
68
Location
, ,
4angrybadgers,

That was my understanding that the concealed in whole or in part was why you had to have a permit/license to carry openly. Well by their definition it was concealed but only by the holster and to carry concealed you needed a permit/license. Going back and read it all again. I only scanned the parts that were added. Thank you for your reply. Much Appreciated.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
4angrybadgers,

That was my understanding that the concealed in whole or in part was why you had to have a permit/license to carry openly. Well by their definition it was concealed but only by the holster and to carry concealed you needed a permit/license. Going back and read it all again. I only scanned the parts that were added. Thank you for your reply. Much Appreciated.


Open carry was never regulated by definition. It was subtly/unconstitutional regulated through an over broad statute relevant to concealed carry, as 4angrybadgers points out.

I see you are a co-owner of Handgunlaw.us. I used the link in your sig line to visit the site. Very informative. However, though it is called Handgunlaw, it appears to address concealed carry only. Is there a reason it doesn't consider open carry? Handgun carry in all forms is important correct? I would think it a disadvantage to infer that only concealed carry is an option for a LAC, especially in a state like Ms. where open carry cannot be regulated.
 
Last edited:

Gary Slider

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
68
Location
, ,
It is tough just keeping up on the Concealed Carry stuff. Open Carry has a lot of its own items to contend with like this very thread is talking about. Thinking about it But we supply a link to opencarry.org and even mention them in our FAQ's as the place to go for Open Carry Info.
 
Last edited:

MSRebel54

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Northern Mississippi, ,
This bill is awaiting the Governor's signature, and is due back by 3-6-2013. I have purposefully had very little to say about it, and then only to a few trusted friends, and a post or two in this forum because of the nature of the forum. (Not counting writing my legislators originally). When I see the words, "Approved by Governor" on it at the Mississippi Bill Status site, then I will have PLENTY to say about it. I think the less said at this point, the better. I can't speak for others, but I'm not going to get into a "what the bill would do" conversation. I'd rather wait a little bit, and talk about what the LAW actually does.
 

maroonandwhite

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
2
Location
Moscow, TN
Hey guys. Been following along on this site for a while now and decided to join. I live in TN but work in MS so this is very exciting!

Looks like the governor has approved this! Is this law effective immediately or do we really have to wait until July 1st for this to go into effect?
 
Last edited:

lewismug

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1
Location
SARAH
Response from Andy Gipson:

From: Pierce, William
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:35 PM
To: Andy Gipson
Cc: 'williammpierce@bellsouth.net'
Subject: House Bill 2 and related question
Representative Gipson,

I recall reading that any weapon could be considered concealed if any part of it were concealed at all, including behind a holster. I understand that this has caused confusion for many that would like to carry openly without a concealed carry permit. Supposedly carrying openly is legal in the State of Mississippi, but the confusing wording in the law raised questions as to whether it was legal to carry openly without a permit or not. I read about House Bill 2 being signed into law today and would like to know if it will have any impact on the current law which states:

Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-1 (2011)

§ 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties
(1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows:

I would like to know if it is illegal in the State of Mississippi to openly carry a pistol on my side unconcealed and without a concealed carry permit. I have heard of some being arrested and prosecuted for a concealed weapon without a permit because of the way this law is written and I would not like to follow in their footsteps. If your new bill does not change what is quoted above, what can be done to re-write or fix this law to make it less confusing? I spent 10 years serving my country before I was honorably discharged and have no intention of breaking any laws. I have asked Mississippi DPS and the State AG with no real answer yet. They pass the buck and tell me that it is open to deliberation as to whether I could be arrested should I openly carry with no permit.

Thanks,

William Pierce

_____________________________________________

Mr. Pierce, your email is very timely.

Today the Governor signed House Bill 2, which I authored, which eliminates the language "in whole or in part." Under this new law, effective July 1 concealed means concealed, and you don't have to have a permit to carry in a holster in the open. After all, that's what our Constitution provides for in Mississippi.

Thanks

Andy

________
 
Last edited:

MSRebel54

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Northern Mississippi, ,
My very first post to this forum in March of 2010 was about the absurdity in the law pertaining to 97-37-1. My hat goes off to Rep. Gipson and all the other legislators who voted for it, so that it finally...FINALLY became a reality. Each year I have followed the various incarnations of bills that would purport to address the situation of open carry in MS. Each year I've watched all of them "die in committee", most of them deservedly so, for they were not written well, and could have caused more problems than they solved. We are lucky, in that Rep. Gipson did everything exactly right.

In the past there were bills written with "Constitutional Carry" in mind that would seem to be saying no permit required for concealed or open carry. One little problem: The Constitution ALLOWS for regulation of concealed carry. They would write these type bills, and similar ones then not amend 97-37-1 (which always was the root of the problem), so you would simply have one section of code contradicting the other one.

In my previous message, before the bill was signed, I said I thought the less said about this at the time, the better. The reason being is that up to that point, it had pretty much skated by the main stream media. I could imagine what would happen if the anti-gun media got its mitts on certain talking points about this bill. Now that it's done, and it will become law, hopefully, decades of mumbo jumbo, law officers and judges "interpreting" what the law was, and all the railroading law abiding citizens IS OVER.

As of July 1st, 2013 there will be no doubt whatsoever, no weasel wording in the law, no question that ONLY concealed carry is regulated, and that the ONLY carry that can be deemed illegal is, carrying concealed without a firearms permit. If you have a firearms permit, there's no way you can carry that IS illegal. There are places that would make it illegal, but not ways. If you don't have a firearms permit, and wish to carry, then the weapon will have to be open and in plain sight. Well, I'm a happy camper, at least now the law conforms to the Constitution. Truthfully, I didn't think I'd ever see it happen.

Ok, here's what I'm going to do, and I will suggest to those of you who have the time and ability might want to do also:

I'm going to print out a copy of HB2 as it was approved by the Governor, and read it several times especially concentrating on the changes that were made. This will be the actual text of what becomes law on July 1st for 97-37-1.----- 45-9-101 is still subject to some word changes before the end of the session, but it's about record keeping and nothing to do with carry, so for the pertinent parts, you can fairly well depend on that too.

Once I'm satisfied that I know it well enough, I am going to request a meeting with my Chief of Police and/or Sheriff prior to July 1st to make sure he is aware of the changes, and ask if he has a policy for his officers so they know the law, and how to handle the situation when some "concerned citizen" freaks out and calls them because they see someone wearing an openly displayed sidearm. If he has any questions, or misconceptions about the law, I will be well versed, and have a copy with me for him to read. Doing this could head off a LOT of unnecessary harassment or actions by uninformed law enforcement officers. This would seem to be the way to go, rather than waiting until you have to argue with a patrol officer and come out on the short end of the stick.

If anyone can add to this, or has other ideas, please feel free.

Reb
 

FedFirefighter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
103
Location
Hattiesburg, MS.
Once I'm satisfied that I know it well enough, I am going to request a meeting with my Chief of Police and/or Sheriff prior to July 1st to make sure he is aware of the changes, and ask if he has a policy for his officers so they know the law, and how to handle the situation when some "concerned citizen" freaks out and calls them because they see someone wearing an openly displayed sidearm. If he has any questions, or misconceptions about the law, I will be well versed, and have a copy with me for him to read. Doing this could head off a LOT of unnecessary harassment or actions by uninformed law enforcement officers. This would seem to be the way to go, rather than waiting until you have to argue with a patrol officer and come out on the short end of the stick.

Reb

I think that is a great idea, and will try to do the same. I am so glad to see this pass.
 

DCKilla

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
523
Location
Wet Side, WA
Mississippi has moved one step closer to liberty. I've been anticipating this day for a long time. This screwed up statute "whole or in part" will be soon off the books and into history. Good luck my friends and carry on freely.
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Mississippi is Orange!

Hey admin people... time to change Ms. from green to orange on your map!

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

Congrats to Ms.!! I've Oc'ed in Picyune and Waveland on occation, but always with the possibility of harrasement. We're never completely free from that possibility, but the I believe the odds are seriously improved. Great news!
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Not in effect until July 1, 2013

As you know the new law doesn't legalize anything, it clarifies something that has always been a constitutionally protected right. Oc in Ms without a permit already exists. This law indicates the intent of the legislature to clarify. The OCDO map has always been incorrect. I thought admin could correct it now that the agreement of the MS. legislature and the Governor have shown that it is OBVIOUSLY incorrect.
 
Top