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How much firepower is recommended?

flagellum

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
384
Location
North Las Vegas, NV
So I started to think about this after I had a wierd dream last night. Basicaly what it came down to in the dream was I was carrying my pocket .380, and had to engage two close range targets who were trying to carjack my little brother and I. In the dream I drew on both men, and while focused on the man to my left the man to my right pulled a weapon of his own. In my haste and confusion I ended up firing off all 7 rounds in my .380. I ended up running dry after striking both targets at least once, however not enough to drop them both. I ended up taking multiple hits from the gunman.

It made me consider a few things:
Is 7 rounds enough?
Is .380 enough firepower to drop a man?
Is a micro gun accurate enough that I can fire it and hit my targets under stress?

What do you guys consider to be adequete firepower, as far as caliber, gun size, and ammo capacity?
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
9mm or .38spcl +P is the minimum I consider adequate power. I greatly prefer .45ACP, then .357 magnum. I've always considered 7+1 in my CCO SIG more than adequate for 99% of places I go. That 1% would mean carry an extra mag--or two. Most places, the 5 in my Taurus snubbie, 135gr Gold Dot +P short barrel, are just fine. If I'm going someplace where I think a gunfight may start, I'll have my M-4 with three extra mags of penetrator 5.56 NATO in the car.
 

4angrybadgers

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
411
Location
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, USA
Hoo-boy, this should be interesting. :) There are a LOT of differing opinions on those questions.

deerpopcorn.gif


My opinion: if you can afford, carry comfortably, and shoot comfortably something bigger (in calibre, capacity, and platform size), then get something bigger. Where that line exists is different for different folks in different situations. That's why many carriers own several different guns - each one serves a different purpose under different circumstances.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
9mm or .38spcl +P is the minimum I consider adequate power. I greatly prefer .45ACP, then .357 magnum. I've always considered 7+1 in my CCO SIG more than adequate for 99% of places I go. That 1% would mean carry an extra mag--or two. Most places, the 5 in my Taurus snubbie, 135gr Gold Dot +P short barrel, are just fine. If I'm going someplace where I think a gunfight may start, I'll have my M-4 with three extra mags of penetrator 5.56 NATO in the car.

If I am even contemplating going someplace a gunfight may start, I am doing something wrong.
 

sFe

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
139
Location
Laurinburg, North Carolina, USA
I think they said it best on the sportsman channel last night. The smaller calibers are good to get you out of bad situation, but not to stay and fight with. In other words fire and flee.
 
M

McX

Guest
absolute ditto on what grapeshot said!

PS: Loved the live of bambi eating popcorn, mind if i swipe it?
 

45acpForMe

Newbie
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
So I started to think about this after I had a wierd dream last night.

First off, you shouldn't be playing first-person-shooter games right before bedtime if they are going to give you nightmares.

Secondly, since it is a dream, you reach under your baseball cap and pull out the 50 caliber machine gun and cut the two badguys in half at the waist! :eek:

In real life, shot placement is most important, (along with situational awareness to avoid or be ready). Bigger is typically better unless 1) you can't control and shoot accurately with the caliber, 2) can't afford to buy another gun or can't afford to train because of the cost of ammo & range time, 3) won't carry it because it is uncomfortable. Any gun with you is better than a larger caliber gun left (at home, in the car, etc).

So rent some guns or go to the range with friends and try their guns until you find something you like. I like 45acp, others like 40s&w,9mm,etc.

Also don't eat lasagna right before bedtime! :D

Edited to add: There are many guns out there with hi capacity. Most shots miss their mark 50-80% of the time so having more bullets gives you an advantage, but you are also responsible for those misses. In 45acp you can range from 7-16 rounds, 40S&W up to 18 rounds, and 9mm up to 20 rounds. People have said that the vast majority of shootings are in the range of 3-5 shots. If multiple people are attacking I would like to have more than 8. Instead of more capacity in the gun you can always carry more magazines too.
 
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rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
I carry a full size 1911 in 45ACP in either Federal Tactical Bonded or HST's 14+1 and an extra mag and a S&W Airweight in .38 Special+P with Silver Tip hollow points with 2 speed loaders. If I miss with 54 rounds....I need to practice a lot more than I have been......which is once a week.

Started to get rid of the Airweight, but with a 1 7/8" barrel it will drive nails at 20 feet...go figure.

Edit: If you have to ask; you ain't got 'nuff.
 
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sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
One of the main advantages of Open Carry is being able to have a fullsize duty pistol with plenty of ammo at hand. Is 7 rounds enough? I'd rather not have to find out. Is .380 enough? Depends. Again, I'd rather have better options.
Tell you what, read this story of a off duty LEO who found himself in a gunfight armed with only a .38 cal revolver against a guy with a hi-cap Glock. The LEO ended up on the ground, his gun empty, begging for his life and the bad guy standing over him ready to execute him.
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Pa...-Fired-Palm-Desert-California-03-30-1996.aspx
Read that and then tell me you want to walk around OCing something like a 7 shot .380. Hey, don't get me wrong, I started OCing with a Bersa .380 but stories like this changed my mind. In this day and age, if you are OCing it should be a modern, combat caliber handgun loaded with rounds capable of doing the job.
 

Vector

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
32
Location
Tampa
You should immediately go out and buy a .50 BMG. and strap it to your back. anything less and your practically defenseless.


Really tho, 9mm +p, and up is enough.
 

KansasMustang

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
1,005
Location
Herington, Kansas, USA
Again just me saying it, nothing less than .40 cal for CC, and .45 cal for OC. Ten rounds in mt PT140 and 13+1 in my XD45. Plus a spare magazine for both. 27 rounds for the XD and 20 rounds for the PT140. Nothing less makes me feel comfortable.
 

Thoreau

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
315
Location
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
So I started to think about this after I had a wierd dream last night. Basicaly what it came down to in the dream was I was carrying my pocket .380, and had to engage two close range targets who were trying to carjack my little brother and I. In the dream I drew on both men, and while focused on the man to my left the man to my right pulled a weapon of his own. In my haste and confusion I ended up firing off all 7 rounds in my .380. I ended up running dry after striking both targets at least once, however not enough to drop them both. I ended up taking multiple hits from the gunman.

It made me consider a few things:
Is 7 rounds enough?
Is .380 enough firepower to drop a man?
Is a micro gun accurate enough that I can fire it and hit my targets under stress?

What do you guys consider to be adequete firepower, as far as caliber, gun size, and ammo capacity?

To answer all three of your key points, "It depends."

Many folks say that the majority of self defense shooting incidents only use up three rounds. Many also say that .380 is a bare minimum, but even a .22 is better than nothing. Accuracy of course will depend on a combination of the gun, the distance you're shooting, and your own accuracy and proficiency under stress.

That said, it sounds like this dream was pretty vivid, and that it certainly has garnered your attention. If it's something you are truly concerned about, perhaps you should look into a beefier sidearm solution. I'm not saying that you absolutely should make a change, but it can't hurt to hit up a shooting range, rent some guns in different calibers and capacities, and see where that leads you.

I've actually been looking into a .380 (in the form of a Ruger LCP) as both a backup gun, and as a 'primary' for circumstances where concealment is the #1 priority for whatever reasons. I personally won't rule the caliber out, as every caliber/capacity combination has a place and time, and sometimes it's just not practical to carry my normal piece.

For reference, my normal sidearm is an H&K USP in .40 with a JetFunnel installed and 16 round magazines. I carry with one in the chamber, the magazine fully topped off, and the safety off with the hammer down for a DA trigger pull on the first shot (SA thereafter.) I certainly don't "feel" outgunned with that setup, and I'm fairly accurate with it as well. My other rig for light concealment is an H&K P2000 in 9mm. Again, topped off, no safety, hammer down, etc. (13 + 1 rounds_ and again it's a rig that I'm comfortable with and able to shoot decently.

Regardless of the situation, I'd always opt for the larger gun (easier to control) with more capacity (more bang attempts) and a higher caliber round (bigger hole) if I can, but if it came down to it, I wouldn't feel a .380 to be insufficient. If I did, then perhaps I'm entering an area that's unwise.

Something else that might be of value to you regardless of the firearm you carry... more training. Seeing that you are in Vegas, you certainly have a few choices, and good training can help no matter what you carry.
 
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heresyourdipstickjimmy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
279
Location
Mo.
If any of you answered this question, you were duped!

Firepower (caliber in this case) has absolutely nothing to do with what you carry, in a manner of speaking. Let me explain before you jump on me.

Shot placement is paramount. If you cannot make your shots count, even a .44 Mag won't be much good, especially if you miss altogether in a high stress situation.

Dead is dead folks. Put a .22lr high velocity hollow point in the right place and even a human will go down for the count. But who want's to risk a .22lr? Most of us won't.

So no matter what you choose as your defensive caliber, remember...your response will only be as good as your training. Fail to train, you'll fail to respond properly. Oh, and I'm a 9mm and .45ACP friendly individual.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
If any of you answered this question, you were duped!

Firepower (caliber in this case) has absolutely nothing to do with what you carry, in a manner of speaking. Let me explain before you jump on me.

Shot placement is paramount. If you cannot make your shots count, even a .44 Mag won't be much good, especially if you miss altogether in a high stress situation.

Dead is dead folks. Put a .22lr high velocity hollow point in the right place and even a human will go down for the count. But who want's to risk a .22lr? Most of us won't.

So no matter what you choose as your defensive caliber, remember...your response will only be as good as your training. Fail to train, you'll fail to respond properly. Oh, and I'm a 9mm and .45ACP friendly individual.

I agree with what you said, but can't figure out how we were "duped"? And "firepower" refers to capacity, not stopping power, in a discussion of small arms. I'd rather miss 'close' with a .45ACP than a .380. That has to be a consideration as well.
 

heresyourdipstickjimmy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
279
Location
Mo.
I agree with what you said, but can't figure out how we were "duped"? And "firepower" refers to capacity, not stopping power, in a discussion of small arms. I'd rather miss 'close' with a .45ACP than a .380. That has to be a consideration as well.

And yet another one who refuses to actually read the original post. So I'll quote it for you. Feel free to scroll to the OP for your personal duh-huh moment.

"Is 7 rounds enough?"
"Is .380 enough firepower to drop a man?"
 
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Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
9mm or .38spcl +P is the minimum I consider adequate power. I greatly prefer .45ACP, then .357 magnum. I've always considered 7+1 in my CCO SIG more than adequate for 99% of places I go. That 1% would mean carry an extra mag--or two. Most places, the 5 in my Taurus snubbie, 135gr Gold Dot +P short barrel, are just fine. If I'm going someplace where I think a gunfight may start, I'll have my M-4 with three extra mags of penetrator 5.56 NATO in the car.

Last time I went some place where I thought a gunfight might start I brought along about 543,000 of my closest friends.

A lot of time the gunfight comes to you. So based on my experience, training I decided many years ago that I will always carry a full size pistol OC or CC.

My motto on what caliber to carry is carry the largest caliber you can effectively control and load it with hottest factory round you can buy, your not going to shoot them all day so who cares if they cost $1 each. So I carry a full size .45 ACP pistol with 230 grain +P JHP. Because magazines can malfunction or you may need more rounds I carry a spare magazine. Well if you can carry 1 spare magazine you can carry 2.
 
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