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Is this standard?

1Grizzly1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
A friend of mine was getting ready to go hunting. He stopped at a Menards to get some supplies. Apparently someone saw his pistol in his door pouch and called the police. They showed up and asked for his permit and ran him for warrants. He was free to go after that. Is that SOP for police in the upper peninsula? Seemed a little excessive to me.
 

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
I've been to menards several times while oc'ing down here at the new store near Flint and never had a problem.

The incident you presented is missing some details: Was the encounter consensual? or was the oc'er detained?

It is not lawful for an officer to detain a person without reasonable suspicion of a crime. Carrying a firearm is not a crime, therefore if the person was detained simply for carrying a firearm it would appear that the officer was acting outside his lawful authority.

However, if the officer simply asked the oc'er a few questions that were voluntarily answered it is likely that he was not being detained and no laws were broken.

Was the oc'er carrying a recorder?
 

1Grizzly1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
He wasn't OCing on purpose. He had his pistol in the door pouch of his truck. I'm sure he just complied with whatever the officer asked of him.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
He wasn't OCing on purpose. He had his pistol in the door pouch of his truck. I'm sure he just complied with whatever the officer asked of him.

It was excessive and I would suggest he complain to the chief. From just the info you presented,tThe officer had RAS to check to see if he had a CPL and that was all, but not to check for warrants. Complain complain complain.....
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
It was excessive and I would suggest he complain to the chief. From just the info you presented,tThe officer had RAS to check to see if he had a CPL and that was all, but not to check for warrants. Complain complain complain.....

i would argue the RAS for a CPL on the grounds that they were there simply on the report of someone with a firearm. would they show up and ask for a drivers license simply on the report of someone driving a car? i think not.
 
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1Grizzly1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
I'm sure this is wrong, but he just informed me that in MI you HAVE to conceal after getting a permit. I'm sure this is why he let the officer run him, he thinks he has to. I will try to get the correct info to him when I have it all.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
I'm sure this is wrong, but he just informed me that in MI you HAVE to conceal after getting a permit. I'm sure this is why he let the officer run him, he thinks he has to. I will try to get the correct info to him when I have it all.
Tell your friend that after he receives his driver's license that he's Required to drive everywhere, to the mailbox, or even walking the dog.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
No, you don't have to conceal with a CPL. A CPL gives you the option not the obligation to conceal. Why would a person get a background check, fingerprints, photos, pay a fee, and such and so forth to give up a right?
 

1Grizzly1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
Got this from handgunlaw.us:

Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
 His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
 His or her driver license or personal identification card
 Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.

Maybe that's why he showed his license, however does that give the officer the right to run it for warrants?
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
i would argue the RAS for a CPL on the grounds that they were there simply on the report of someone with a firearm. would they show up and ask for a drivers license simply on the report of someone driving a car? i think not.
However, without knowing exactly how it was called in, it is possible someone reported seeing the pistol in the door. This places it in a reachable position for the driver while he's sitting in his vehicle, and thus, he would need the CPL to be on legal grounds.

I had police called on me, in Leslie, when someone saw me getting into my car with my pistol openly carried on my person. Once the officer was told I had a CPL, he didn't even ask to see it, he just said, "Oh, you're good to go then." and that was it.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
However, without knowing exactly how it was called in, it is possible someone reported seeing the pistol in the door. This places it in a reachable position for the driver while he's sitting in his vehicle, and thus, he would need the CPL to be on legal grounds.

I had police called on me, in Leslie, when someone saw me getting into my car with my pistol openly carried on my person. Once the officer was told I had a CPL, he didn't even ask to see it, he just said, "Oh, you're good to go then." and that was it.

however, i still feel my analogy is valid because unless the person reported that he was brandishing the firearm, the officers had no RAS. if someone called him in for simply driving his vehicle in the parking lot (an act which also requires a license), would the police respond? let alone come out and check and run his drivers license? i think not.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Got this from handgunlaw.us:

Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
 His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
 His or her driver license or personal identification card
 Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.

Maybe that's why he showed his license, however does that give the officer the right to run it for warrants?

My post above stated NO.
It was excessive and I would suggest he complain to the chief. From just the info you presented,the officer had RAS to check to see if he had a CPL and that was all, but not to check for warrants. Complain complain complain.....

And in regards to what you posted above, that is if you are carrying concealed. In the case you presented, the man was carrying concealed in a vehicle, so the officer had RAS to ask for a CPL. ONCE HE SAW THE CPL that should have satisfied the officer that what the man was doing was legal and that should have been it.

Running for warrants is excessive and should not be tolerated. As I said I would complain to the Chief about it.
 
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Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
Got this from handgunlaw.us:

Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
 His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
 His or her driver license or personal identification card
 Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.

Maybe that's why he showed his license, however does that give the officer the right to run it for warrants?
Handgunlaw.us is a decent site, but they left out a crucial part of the opening statement.

An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show
both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

In other words, if you're not carrying concealed, there is no duty to disclose, nor is there any duty to show ID and CPL.
 
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SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
A friend of mine was getting ready to go hunting. He stopped at a Menards to get some supplies. Apparently someone saw his pistol in his door pouch and called the police. They showed up and asked for his permit and ran him for warrants. He was free to go after that. Is that SOP for police in the upper peninsula? Seemed a little excessive to me.

SCOTUS ruled in Florida v. J.L. that an anonymous tip of a gun/firearm does not constitute RAS.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0529_0266_ZO.html

Finally, the requirement that an anonymous tip bear standard indicia of reliability in order to justify a stop in no way diminishes a police officer's prerogative, in accord with Terry, to conduct a protective search of a person who has already been legitimately stopped. We speak in today's decision only of cases in which the officer's authority to make the initial stop is at issue. In that context, we hold that an anonymous tip lacking indicia of reliability of the kind contemplated in Adams and White does not justify a stop and frisk whenever and however it alleges the illegal possession of a firearm.
 
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1Grizzly1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
54
Location
Layton, Utah, USA
Thanks for all of the help guys. I explained things to him and referred him to this site. I don't think he was trying to just roll over and comply, I just think he didn't know any better. Education of the people is crucial.
 

HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
I want to know who the busy body jerk was that called him in for "seeing it in the door.".... wth?! People are ridiculous.
 
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