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Minor parties Presidential debate

eye95

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Courts are notoriously monolithic where precedent is concerned.....they hate reversing "themselves."

Huge jumps in public policy happen very rarely. Though it has happened less very rarely in since 9/11. We are a representative republic.....

The trick is to get the states "liberty loving" and the feds will follow or be dragged towards the light of liberty. The AZ immigration law is a prime example. Another is the SC voter ID law. Change the state and when the courts see the states move the courts are loath to drag the states into a federal fold.

2010 is an example of chipping away at the "two party" system. Tea Party candidates are Republicans but are not the typical republican. 2012 will determine if the Tea Party candidates have impressed or depressed their constituencies. The Tea Party will be a force to reckon with or be relegated to the ash heap of political history.

Do you listen to Jason Lewis? He is a Libertarian supporting Romney for pretty much the reasons I cited. He also advocates a return to Liberty through a focus on local and State elections. I think he takes his Libertarianism to an extreme that I think would be damaging should we ever get to where he wants us to be. But, unlike the sentiment of some around here, I can get behind someone pulling in the general right direction, even if I don't think it is the exact right direction.

F[SUB]x[/SUB] = Fcos(theta). As long as -90[SUP]o[/SUP] < theta < 90[SUP]o[/SUP], F helps F[SUB]x[/SUB].
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Do you listen to Jason Lewis? He is a Libertarian supporting Romney for pretty much the reasons I cited. He also advocates a return to Liberty through a focus on local and State elections. I think he takes his Libertarianism to an extreme that I think would be damaging should we ever get to where he wants us to be. But, unlike the sentiment of some around here, I can get behind someone pulling in the general right direction, even if I don't think it is the exact right direction.

F[SUB]x[/SUB] = Fcos(theta). As long as -90[SUP]o[/SUP] < theta < 90[SUP]o[/SUP], F helps F[SUB]x[/SUB].
Being from South Carolina. My family being in SC since the 1720's, I'm more of a states rights kind of guy. I definitely don't like revenuers and I generally don't like yankees. All politics is local-ish.
 

Tess

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Bryan, TX
This might be worth watching if these guys were just debating to share and explore ideas. However, by definition, this is an if-I-were-president debate, which is silly. None of these guys will ever be president. And there is a reason: These guys are so far out of the mainstream as to be unable, even if everyone fully understood these "candidates" positions, to earn more than a few percent of the vote.

So what is the rational way to bring about the change that any one of these "candidates" advocate? You have to move the country that way. Not jump, move. We got where we are over the last century. Some might even say that the path we are on was entered by the outcome of the Civil War. In any event, the acceleration was caused by progressives collecting in a single party, taking over that party, and giving that party control enough to ratchet up the government involvement in a way that is incredibly hard to deratchet. To undo this, Liberty-lovers, including both conservatives and libertarians, need to collect in a single party, take over that party, and give that party control enough to, step-by-step, deratchet the government control.

The ideals of smaller government and more Liberty are being embraced as never before by the Republican Party, not nearly enough, but more than ever before. We need to keep moving the Republican Party in the right direction, give it power, and make it drag the Republic back in the right direction. This is the precise strategy that was used to drag it in the wrong direction. We need to be as politically smart and effective as those who would take our Liberty.

In this election, that means voting for Romney and, more importantly, against Obama. It means voting for Republican house members and senators. It means being just as tough on them in town halls after the election as we were on their predecessors. It means being active in the candidate selection process in order to eliminate RINOs during the primary season. However, once our slate is settled, we must support the Republican (unless, miraculously, the Dems put up a more Liberty-loving candidate).

You can vote "principle" and let the country slide more in the wrong direction, probably over that cliff, because the more Liberty-loving candidate (who wasn't perfectly Liberty-loving) lost by a handful of votes. Or you can vote realistically and, step-by-step, move the party, then the nation, then the party, then the nation, etc. in the right direction.

Don't be so selfish as to want to do it now for you. Start the process in motion for future generations. "I want it now" is the mantra of the pawns of the collectivists. "I want to build it for the future" is how the Founders and Framers chose to think and how we should now.

If it's not worth watching, then the two major-party candidates have all the right ideas, and there's nothing left to consider. I think that's close-minded, but ...

Not only do I NOT want Mr. Obama to have a second term, I do NOT want Mr. Romney to have one term. Will I get what I want? Unlikely, though mathematically possible.

But if either of the two is elected President, it will be even more important that the Congress send only good legislation forward, as neither has the courage to veto (or even to recognize) bad legislation. Neither has shown any indication of a judicially brilliant, non-partisan Supreme Court nominee.

If those of us who REALLY want to stand up for our rights want to do so, we MUST vote for someone else.
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
If it's not worth watching, then the two major-party candidates have all the right ideas, and there's nothing left to consider. I think that's close-minded, but ...

In full context, I said it was not worth watching as a presidential debate. Please note that I said that the debate would be worth watching if it were just presenting the ideas--much like we do here. Here, however, we are all--strike that, almost all--rational enough to realize that we will not be president any time soon and that whoever wins the presidency will not think exactly as we do. We must pick someone who will move the nation in the right direction. That was the useful purpose of the Romney/Obama debates. That purpose will not be served by a debate full of wannabes.

Context matters. It is easy to pull a few words out and attack them. It requires more effort to cogitate on what is actually being communicated and respond to that. Not paying attention to the full message and reading only what one wants to read is what is truly closed-minded.

Moving on--unless you want to lose the epithets and have a rational and civil discussion.
 

MAC702

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...F[SUB]x[/SUB] = Fcos(theta). As long as -90[SUP]o[/SUP] < theta < 90[SUP]o[/SUP], F helps F[SUB]x[/SUB].

Finally, an argument from you I can actually understand!

:p
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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earth's crust
I am going to vote Gary Johnson for a simple reason, in my state (not a swing state) if a libertarian candidate gets 5% of the vote for this election they are recognized by the state as a "major party".

Technically the republicans have failed to follow the rules or qualify as a major party in our last election in 2010. (Our State). http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...e-to-have-romney-kicked-off-washington-ballot

but of course this is being ignored.

.

I vote for guys who support ideals match most that I also support ... GJ does it for me .. but good point on the 5% need...

Ratboy or Commieboy is not my personal choice.

I have faith Gary will win, like I had faith that the Cubs would win the series this season from the beginning of the season. Oh well, NEXT YEAR .. the rally call of Cub fans ...


Keep the Faith!
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Somehow supporting this:

[video=youtube;obz1OeUMdqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obz1OeUMdqU[/video]

will fix things? Ha, nice try. I can't support what I saw in that video above. nope.
 

Tactical9mm

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MAC702

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Why did they wait so long to do these debates? Hasn't early voting started in most states? And don't most people who CARE about the issues take advantage of early voting?

Despite wanting to hear what GJ has to say, I've already voted by absentee ballot.
 

Tactical9mm

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Messages
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Manchester, New Hampshire
Why did they wait so long to do these debates? Hasn't early voting started in most states? And don't most people who CARE about the issues take advantage of early voting?

Despite wanting to hear what GJ has to say, I've already voted by absentee ballot.

Good question on why they waited. I don't have an answer, but would assume that it had something to do with getting a sponsor like free and equal to host the debates for them.

And yes, most States that do allow early voting usually open it up within the thirty days before the election takes place. I know when I lived in Nevada I always voted on the first day that I was able to.

At least these candidates are able to get their message out to people who haven't as yet voted. Better this then nothing, I guess.
 

DangerClose

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These guys are so far out of the mainstream as to be unable, even if everyone fully understood these "candidates" positions, to earn more than a few percent of the vote.
Gary Johnson is a two-time governor. And a popular one too.
You can vote "principle" and let the country slide more in the wrong direction, probably over that cliff, because the more Liberty-loving candidate (who wasn't perfectly Liberty-loving) lost by a handful of votes. Or you can vote realistically and, step-by-step, move the party, then the nation, then the party, then the nation, etc. in the right direction.

Don't be so selfish as to want to do it now for you. Start the process in motion for future generations. "I want it now" is the mantra of the pawns of the collectivists. "I want to build it for the future" is how the Founders and Framers chose to think and how we should now.
lol, Romney wants to add $200 billion dollars a year to military spending. He's signed more gun bans than Obama has. He'll probably start a war with Iran his first week in office. When asked about specifics of his tax plans, he has no answer. His foreign policy advisors are the same ones Bush had. ...which of the two main candidates is the more "liberty" one again?

That RNC Sham 2012 video doesn't tell anywhere near the full story of what went on this election. Not even including all the cheating and dishonesty and literally finger breaking and calling in SWAT teams leading up to the convention, the RNC at the convention threw out duly-elected delegates AND simply disregarded the six states that properly submitted their paperwork to nominate Ron Paul. RON PAUL WAS NOMINATED AT THE CONVENTION. It's on video.

Obama = four more years of corruption. Romney = eight more years of corruption. Look at how the neocons all fell in line with an R in the White House. Republicans passed the Patriot Act, NDAA indefinite detention, government-sanctioned murder of a 16-year-old American citizen, the no-warrant wiretap act, etc. Credit to current Democrats who some of whom at least now vote against renewing the Patriot Act and the no-warrant wiretap act.

An Obama win is probably the best thing that can happen for liberty. Rush Limbaugh and other talkers have said things like if Republicans lose to Obama then shut the party down and fire everyone involved in the election. I don't know how anyone could vote for the guy the RNC cheated to nominate. The same RNC that now changed the delegate rules that will screw over everyone in future elections.

If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote, the Libertarian Party will qualify for a lot more funding, and would become much more popular because of it, and that means in 2016 there wouldn't be mainstream debates with only two people basically saying the same thing and not touching important topics like NDAA.

If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote, it will be the beginning of the end for the two-party system. If you say we should put the process in motion for future generations, that is how you do it.

"Be Libertarian with me for one election."
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Somehow supporting this:

will fix things? Ha, nice try. I can't support what I saw in that video above. nope.

It will take a lot more than obvious corruption to lose the support of some republican "lifers". It's like a religion to them I think. The way they will blindly support any ol scumbag the RNC tosses up... It is beyond logic
 

KBCraig

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Granite State of Mind
Why did they wait so long to do these debates? Hasn't early voting started in most states? And don't most people who CARE about the issues take advantage of early voting?

Anyone who has voted early either:
A) Had their mind made up already;
B) Ignorantly assumed there was nothing else to learn; or,
C) Sought out the information on their own.


It will take a lot more than obvious corruption to lose the support of some republican "lifers". It's like a religion to them I think. The way they will blindly support any ol scumbag the RNC tosses up... It is beyond logic

I know people who would vote straight Republican if Obama was their nominee.
 

hermannr

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Mar 24, 2011
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Okanogan Highland
Here in WA we vote by mail in ballot. Election day is only when you start counting the ballots. I have mailed mine in already, and like SVG, my (and my wife's) choice was Gary Johnson.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
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Location
Nevada
Anyone who has voted early either:
A) Had their mind made up already;
B) Ignorantly assumed there was nothing else to learn; or,
C) Sought out the information on their own....

No argument there. I did both A and C.
 

KYGlockster

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Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
yawn

None of them will come even close to winning. Let's focus on the actual choice we have, pick the better candidate, and vote for him. Otherwise, for all the effect you will have, you might as well stay home.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Right, we should just abandon our morals and principles and vote for someone who shares nothing in common with the Founders, and that we know will continue to destroy our country and our Constitutional rights. That sure sounds appealing. I will vote with my beliefs so I have a clear conscious, and I will know I didn't help the destruction by voting for the "lesser of two evils."
 
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