My first LEO stop today.

[sparkman2]

I live in Virginia beach and i was wondering if they have a stop and id ordinance and I found this:

Sec. 23-7.1. - Providing identification to police officer.

It shall be unlawful and a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, or to provide false information in response to such a request, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification.

I am not a lawyer so... what? :question:

 

[t33j]

I am not a lawyer so... what? :question:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-stop-today.&p=1590460&viewfull=1#post1590460 covers it pretty well. Norfolk has one too.

 

[TFred]

I live in Virginia beach and i was wondering if they have a stop and id ordinance and I found this:

Sec. 23-7.1. - Providing identification to police officer.

It shall be unlawful and a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, or to provide false information in response to such a request, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification.

I am not a lawyer so... what? :question:

So if a LEO asks you to identify yourself, and you respond with the question, "Why do you believe that the public safety requires me to give you that information?" Would the LEO be on the hook to give you a legitimate answer? This little caveat seems to be different than the RAS, which the courts have held to themselves the right to decide. "Surrounding circumstances" which "indicate to a reasonable man" would seem to move that decision back toward the street, rather than toward the courtroom.

TFred

 

[TFred]

I just watched a video earlier this morning of verizon picket line people condoning violence against the people who are taking their spots to make money to feed their family. If I'm going to work and become surrounded by a mob with armed members and I am getting threats of violence I will be contacting the police and possibly drawing to the low ready till I get to a safe place.


What I am saying is, be careful what group you're associating yourself with, especially while you're visibly armed. You may not be threatening people, but perception is everything. Stay safe.

And by the way to add a little more to these thoughts... don't forget people have been arrested, charged and convicted of brandishing, without ever touching their gun. Walking a picket line with signs and associates shouting at scrubs is a long way from trying to cross a river on a ferry. I'm just saying...

TFred

 

[RetiredOC]

scrubs or scabs?

or people working to feed their family XD


really though, in the videos they're calling them scabs and pushing their children in front of verizon trucks. there are already over a dozen cases of these picket people getting hit by vehicles.

 

[Baked on Grease]

I just watched a video earlier this morning of verizon picket line people condoning violence against the people who are taking their spots to make money to feed their family. If I'm going to work and become surrounded by a mob with armed members and I am getting threats of violence I will be contacting the police and possibly drawing to the low ready till I get to a safe place.


What I am saying is, be careful what group you're associating yourself with, especially while you're visibly armed. You may not be threatening people, but perception is everything. Stay safe.

I agree, but I think that video you saw didn't show the whole story. Earlier that morning one of those who crossed the line nearly ran over one of the picketers, but braked just in time to only tap them on the leg... 3 times... But even so I would like to think I would remove myself from being too closely associated with anything that can be construed as an angry mob. Down here in Va. it's not nearly as heated as in NYC.


UPDATE: I've misplaced my recorder! So at this moment I can't upload the audio. Sorry folks I did carry at my 2nd turn on the picket lines yesterday, but for the hour and a half where the managers would arrive.on location I replaced my regular sidearm with a brigh neon green/orange squirt gun modeled after a barreta 9mm. Got quite a few laughs.

After seeing that the woman who called the cops last time did not come, I re-armed for the duration. I wanted to do this as a kind of satiracal towards her. Sorta like "see? Does this make you feel better, lady? I am not armed... As far as you can tell at least... Heh heh heh"

One cop did show up, but was just coming to talk, most of his family is union and wanted to make sure his other buddies weren't harassing us because of the 'incident' the other day.

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[Baked on Grease]

scrubs or scabs?

or people working to feed their family XD


really though, in the videos they're calling them scabs and pushing their children in front of verizon trucks. there are already over a dozen cases of these picket people getting hit by vehicles.

We have had 3 years to save up in preperation for a strike, more than that if you take into account that verizon hasn't hired anyone knew into the union for 6 years.

I understand that ones financial circumstances may not have let them save much, but we knew this could happen for a while.

I don't condone anything those guys are doing up there in NYC... I don't quite understand their mentality... Though the Irish comparison is matching better every story I read >.<

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[Citizen]

I live in Virginia beach and i was wondering if they have a stop and id ordinance and I found this:

Sec. 23-7.1. - Providing identification to police officer.

It shall be unlawful and a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person at a public place or place open to the public to refuse to identify himself by name and address at the request of a uniformed police officer or of a properly identified police officer not in uniform, or to provide false information in response to such a request, if the surrounding circumstances are such as to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety requires such identification.

I am not a lawyer so... what? :question:

Read these three cases in the order given below. First read the syllabus (summary). Then when time allows, read the opinion of the majority fully:

Brown vs Texas http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0443_0047_ZO.html

Kolender vs Lawson http://supreme.justia.com/us/461/352/case.html

Hiibel vs 6th Judicial District Court http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-5554.ZO.html

 

[conhntr]

scrubs or scabs?

or people working to feed their family XD


really though, in the videos they're calling them scabs and pushing their children in front of verizon trucks. there are already over a dozen cases of these picket people getting hit by vehicles.

Pedestrian always have the right of way.

 

[Blk97F150]

Pedestrian always have the right of way.

Got a cite for that? With particular attention to the word 'always' please.....

 

[Badger Johnson]

I seem to recall that several Va cities have what amounts to a stop and ID. Va Beach, NNews and one other. They also have odd things like it's illegal to bicycle in the road where there is a bike path nearby. (Stupid ordinance, because what if the bike path doesn't go to your desination?). I am not sure on this but offer it as a hunch.

That one for VaBeach is so vague a cop can apply it anywhere, anytime.

 

[Shovelhead]

Verizon has already received favorable court decisions in several states against the Union and the strikers because of the questionable tactics being employed in New York and elsewhere.
I believe the leaders might be trying to prevent the use of photos of legally armed strikers by the media to support Verizon's stance that all the strikers are "thugs".


I walk in DC so the 2nd amendment does not apply.

 

[skidmark]

Pedestrian always have the right of way.

I think that the reason I can't find the case on the web site for the Va Supreme Court is because it's too old. But there was a case in Richmond many years ago where a woman stepped out between some parked cars on West Broad Street - in the VCU area if my memory serves me well - and got hit by a car. The ruling was that she did not have the right of way when attempting to cross the street outside of a marked pedestrian crosswalk.

I am not going to treck out to the law libary to look it up in print. Somebody with a paid Lexus/Nexus account could do that.

But the point is that saying "always" is just as dangerous as saying "never". Always remember to never say always because you never know when it might not be that way.

stay safe.

 

[peter nap]

I think that the reason I can't find the case on the web site for the Va Supreme Court is because it's too old. But there was a case in Richmond many years ago where a woman stepped out between some parked cars on West Broad Street - in the VCU area if my memory serves me well - and got hit by a car. The ruling was that she did not have the right of way when attempting to cross the street outside of a marked pedestrian crosswalk.

I am not going to treck out to the law libary to look it up in print. Somebody with a paid Lexus/Nexus account could do that.

But the point is that saying "always" is just as dangerous as saying "never". Always remember to never say always because you never know when it might not be that way.

stay safe.

Nap's rule....

Sail pedestrians have no rights!

 

[Blk97F150]

But the point is that saying "always" is just as dangerous as saying "never". Always remember to never say always because you never know when it might not be that way.

LOL! Exactly!

A couple snips to the topic at hand:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-926

No pedestrian shall step into a highway open to moving vehicular traffic at any point between intersections where his presence would be obscured from the vision of drivers of approaching vehicles by a vehicle or other obstruction at the curb or side.

And from: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924

No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.

And a decently written article on the topic (I have no idea of the legal accuracy, and am not 'vouching' for the attorney):
http://www.michaelmorgenstern.com/p782.html

 

[Repeater]

It's very simple ... except when it's not

LOL! Exactly!

You quote: "No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."

It's very simple:

• Open Carry is a right.
  
• Concealed Carry is a privilege.
  
• Jaywalking is a crime.
  
• Gunwalking is treason.

 

[Baked on Grease]

UPDATE!!:

CWA and Verizon have come to an agreement and I will return to work on Tuesday!

I decided not to walk the line this week as protest against the union for not wanting me to carry while picketing. I got several calls through the week asking me why I wasn't showing and got to educate some on the responsibility of self defense.

Now to catch up on all those troubles.. Got a lot of work ahed of me. So lets see, in Nova we get about 200 Fios troubles a day, times 16 days out thays 3200 troubles to catch up on ....yay...

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[TFred]

UPDATE!!:

CWA and Verizon have come to an agreement and I will return to work on Tuesday!

I decided not to walk the line this week as protest against the union for not wanting me to carry while picketing. I got several calls through the week asking me why I wasn't showing and got to educate some on the responsibility of self defense.

Now to catch up on all those troubles.. Got a lot of work ahed of me. So lets see, in Nova we get about 200 Fios troubles a day, times 16 days out thays 3200 troubles to catch up on ....yay...

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Ha ha, so I guess if anyone has been "missing" from the boards... we know why.

TFred

 

[Baked on Grease]

Ha ha, so I guess if anyone has been "missing" from the boards... we know why.

TFred

I'll still have my tablet on me so I can catch up during lunch breaks. Part of the Return to Work Agreement is no restrictions on overtime for the first week so this will be interesting .. I've got alot of money to earn to make up for 2 weeks off.

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[TFred]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a "Whoosh! No ding."



TFred