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My first LEO stop today.

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
As some of you may know, CWA union employees who work for Verizon went strike on Sunday Aug. 7. Today I took my turn on the picket lines... and I refuse to be out in public un-armed, so I am currently walking while OC-ing, and writing this (isn't technology awesome?)

Some one that crossed the picket lines (management) called the local police about a man with a firearm. 3 marked squad cars and one unmarked (later found out that was the Chief of Police) came by just 20 mins ago.

I feel good about how I handled the encouhter. They asked for ID and I refused, stating that I am not driving a vehicle so am not required to show ID. I gave the officer my name and address... She tried to intimidate me into giving ID but steadfastly refused and restated my info. She tried to claim that while I had the right to carry, she neded to verify that I was not a convicted felon, as they cannot own/carry. I agreed that they cannot carry but insisted that I was within my rights as a private citizen.

While she ran the info, I had a lengthy conversation with the other officers about the strike. All in all they left mumbling something about not intimidating people.

I think I did well, though my heart was all aflutter the whole time. Made sure to carry my voice recorder wi th extra batteries today... Glad I did.

(edit: just now one of the managers came out to take my picture. Trying to say that the union will never let me do this if they knew. There are 3 union reps walking the line with me, all three already stated they might bring theirs tomorrow.)


EDIT:
UPDATE!!:

CWA and Verizon have come to an agreement and I will return to work on Tuesday!

I decided not to walk the line this week as protest against the union for not wanting me to carry while picketing. I got several calls through the week asking me why I wasn't showing and got to educate some on the responsibility of self defense.

Now to catch up on all those troubles.. Got a lot of work ahed of me. So lets see, in Nova we get about 200 Fios troubles a day, times 16 days out thays 3200 troubles to catch up on ....yay...

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Last edited:

Contrarian

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
259
Location
Seattle,WA, , USA
Carry during strike

Good luck.
When Seattle hosted the WTO meeting years ago, the center of activity was two blocks from our (AT&T) office.
MY boss held a crew meeting to tell us to avoid the area...and specifically told me not to show up armed.

We never had a strike while I was a CWA member, so I do not know the official attitude, but our Steward was a SASS member.
 

fjpro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
280
Location
North Carolina
I hear this over and over again

She tried to claim that while I had the right to carry, she neded to verify that I was not a convicted felon, as they cannot own/carry.
This seems to be a typical response by LEO. What is the best answer to give in a situation like this?
By the way, you did a good job although I don't believe you had to give your name and address.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
This seems to be a typical response by LEO. What is the best answer to give in a situation like this?
By the way, you did a good job although I don't believe you had to give your name and address.

Do you have probable suspicion that I am a felon or otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm?
You can't just walk up to someone legally going about their business and demand ID because he may be doing something illegal.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
All in all they left mumbling something about not intimidating people.
I wonder ....
Do ya suppose they were reminding themselves that they shouldn't go around trying to intimidate people, or were they complaining because it seemed they couldn't intimidate someone?
 

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
This seems to be a typical response by LEO. What is the best answer to give in a situation like this?
By the way, you did a good job although I don't believe you had to give your name and address.

I myself gave this much thought after my own encounter. I came up with (IMHO) two salient counters:

One would be to point out someone walking by with a cell phone (or some other innocuous item)
You: "How come you're not stopping him and asking for his ID! He's got a cellphone!"
Officer "Having a cellphone if you're a felon isn't a crime"
You "It is if it's stolen!"
Officer "I have no reason to believe it's stolen"
You "Exactly!...and you have no reason to believe that I'm a felon either, so why are you harassing me? Remember...federal courts have held that there is no firearms exception to the fourth amendment!"
(or something like that)

Another would be to point out that the fifth specifically protects against being required to supply testimony that would incriminate oneself, so even if I was a felon in possession of a firearm forcing me to provide that information would taint the evidence and everything that proceeded from it would be thrown out of court.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Another would be to point out that the fifth specifically protects against being required to supply testimony that would incriminate oneself, so even if I was a felon in possession of a firearm forcing me to provide that information would taint the evidence and everything that proceeded from it would be thrown out of court.
Once you get to court, your responses become "voluntary," and therefore admissible.

TFred
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I'd leave the verbal judo a home. Cops are masters of argument and all the logical sparring in the world won't work....I know, I do it but....I do it to start an argument, not end one.

Read some of User's posts about keeping quiet. Just say NO and maybe a sentence in explanation, then say the conversation is over.
If your research takes you across my code response, don't try it. It really PO's them:lol:
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
I'd leave the verbal judo a home. Cops are masters of argument and all the logical sparring in the world won't work....I know, I do it but....I do it to start an argument, not end one.

Read some of User's posts about keeping quiet. Just say NO and maybe a sentence in explanation, then say the conversation is over.
If your research takes you across my code response, don't try it. It really PO's them:lol:

Oh, do tell of this "code response". :)
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
She tried to claim that while I had the right to carry, she neded to verify that I was not a convicted felon, as they cannot own/carry.

This seems to be a typical response by LEO. What is the best answer to give in a situation like this?

1. Am I free to go?
2. Why are you detaining me?
3. Repeat.
 

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
As some of you may know, CWA union employees who work for Verizon went strike on Sunday Aug. 7. Today I took my turn on the picket lines... and I refuse to be out in public un-armed, so I am currently walking while OC-ing, and writing this (isn't technology awesome?)
1. Are you going to post the digital audio of the entire encounter?
2. Where did this take place? I see you are from Sterling, but Sterling does not have a "Chief of Police"
3. Well done so far ;-)
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
1. Are you going to post the digital audio of the entire encounter?
2. Where did this take place? I see you are from Sterling, but Sterling does not have a "Chief of Police"
3. Well done so far ;-)

I was in Herndon at the time so it was the Herndon local police that showed up. I am not entirely sure if my state/locality requires me to identify myself at least verbally, so I did in this instance to be safe.


As an update: both my local 2222 president and the national president of CWA called near the end of my time on the picket lines. They wanted to press upon me to leave my gun home when I showed up tomorrow and to put my firearm in the trunk of the car today until I was done picketing. I told him that as soon as I have a legal, safe place to leave my firearm I will be sure to put it there. ... I did not bother to tell him that I rode my bike to day...

Tomorrow I plan on using my thigh rig so it's much more visible, but to use a bright orange sqiurt gun in the holster instead of my regular sidearm. Thankfully I will be picketing not 30 feet from my vehicle, so my sidearm won't be too far removed from my person.

Any thoughts on this plan, yay or nay?
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t33j

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,384
Location
King George, VA
I was in Herndon at the time so it was the Herndon local police that showed up. I am not entirely sure if my state/locality requires me to identify myself at least verbally, so I did in this instance to be safe.


As an update: both my local 2222 president and the national president of CWA called near the end of my time on the picket lines. They wanted to press upon me to leave my gun home when I showed up tomorrow and to put my firearm in the trunk of the car today until I was done picketing. I told him that as soon as I have a legal, safe place to leave my firearm I will be sure to put it there. ... I did not bother to tell him that I rode my bike to day...

Tomorrow I plan on using my thigh rig so it's much more visible, but to use a bright orange sqiurt gun in the holster instead of my regular sidearm. Thankfully I will be picketing not 30 feet from my vehicle, so my sidearm won't be too far removed from my person.

Any thoughts on this plan, yay or nay?
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So they think you're incapable of protesting peacefully while carrying a sidearm. Isn't being a part of that stuff done voluntarily?
 
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