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My New Mexico Open Carry Experience

BB62

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Well got asked to leave RR Walmart yesterday for OC'g. Gregory, along with 3 other employees, shortly followed by the securitas guard, told me it was posted by the door...
Definitely interested in WM's followup with you and store management.
 

qednick

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Definitely interested in WM's followup with you and store management.
In NM you cannot OC into any establishment that sells (not just "serves") alcohol. This includes most gas stations, WalMarts, etc. CC is fine, but not OC. I think it's important to drum this into people so as to avoid any unnecessary bad encounters or arrests. If this particular wally world had the signage on the door then I suspect they actually do sell alcohol. If not, then I would certainly like to hear management's take on this too since WM tend to follow state laws.
 

BB62

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In NM you cannot OC into any establishment that sells (not just "serves") alcohol. This includes most gas stations, WalMarts, etc. CC is fine, but not OC. I think it's important to drum this into people so as to avoid any unnecessary bad encounters or arrests. If this particular wally world had the signage on the door then I suspect they actually do sell alcohol. If not, then I would certainly like to hear management's take on this too since WM tend to follow state laws.
WOW. Thanks for the reply.

NM definitely has an "interesting" definition of the word "dispensed" - iow, not the common meaning.
 

solus

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In NM you cannot OC into any establishment that sells (not just "serves") alcohol. This includes most gas stations, WalMarts, etc. CC is fine, but not OC. I think it's important to drum this into people so as to avoid any unnecessary bad encounters or arrests. If this particular wally world had the signage on the door then I suspect they actually do sell alcohol. If not, then I would certainly like to hear management's take on this too since WM tend to follow state laws.
sorry qednick, could you quantify your statement above with a cite:

i believe the OP stated NM 30-7-3 was on the sign...
NM 30-7-3(A) states:
A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
snipped.
B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

there seems to be a disconnect with what was posted on the sign and your statement. only mention of dispense is on the pharmacology statutes

therefore, care to provide a cite?

ipse
 
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qednick

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sorry qednick, could you quantify your statement above with a cite:

i believe the OP stated NM 30-7-3 was on the sign...
NM 30-7-3(A) states:
A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
snipped.
B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

there seems to be a disconnect with what was posted on the sign and your statement. only mention of dispense is on the pharmacology statutes

therefore, care to provide a cite?

ipse
30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.

A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:

(1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;

(2) by a law enforcement officer who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;

(3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;

(4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978] on the premises of:

(a) a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises; or

(b) a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant;

(5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;

(6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or

(7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:

(a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and

(b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.

B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

____________________________________
Also from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Mexico#cite_note-NMDPSFAQ-10

Even with a concealed carry permit, it is not legal to carry a firearm into a federal building, school, or restaurant that serves alcohol. Carrying of a concealed weapon into a store that sells alcohol for off site consumption is legal, but open carry is not allowed in these locations.
 
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AH.74

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It is really quite simple. You can quibble about how to define a word all you want, but it boils down to this:

If there is any alcohol present, at all, in any way, do not open carry there. That's it, that's all, period- end of story.

If the recent poster who was ushered out of WM failed to be aware that that particular WM sold any alcohol, it is on him- not on WM corporate. He's lucky he is not facing more serious consequences.
 

wabbit

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Quite glad NM DPS doesnt agree with either of you...
Dispense means served according to them!
Awaiting to hear DM...
 

AH.74

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Quite glad NM DPS doesnt agree with either of you...
Dispense means served according to them!
Awaiting to hear DM...
No, if you read the law it means served or sold. DPS must enforce the law as it is written, not as they feel it should be.

It baffles me how people cannot understand this law. Again, it is very simple.
 

qednick

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Quite glad NM DPS doesnt agree with either of you...
Dispense means served according to them!
Awaiting to hear DM...
No, if you read the law it means served or sold. DPS must enforce the law as it is written, not as they feel it should be.

It baffles me how people cannot understand this law. Again, it is very simple.
The statute has been posted in full at least twice now on this thread (and once more conveniently "snipped"). Although the word "dispense" may seem a bit misleading, the law makes it clear that it's only OK to conceal carry in locations that sell alcohol for off premises consumption provided you have a valid CC license. We're just trying to help you wabbit...I'm sure we all appreciate you OC'ing and posting your experiences but I would rather you avoid any unnecessary arrests or really bad encounters. Be careful with those NM WalMarts...almost every one of them sells alcohol.
 

AH.74

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By the exit door, I found their signage and the NM statute they are referencing is 30-7-3 (ready for this?) Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments and their sign references being charged with a 4th degree felony!

Which is what the statute states, but: B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

There is a caveat in small black letters on the top of their sign which discusses CC'g exception as outlined in the referenced statute. So I pulled my shirt out and CC'd walking back into the store to finish my shopping.
wabbit- just for clarification;

Your first statements read as if you were previously unaware of the law and the penalties of violating said law. Is this the case? If so, I must point out that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and it is your obligation as a legal gun owner who wants to stay legal and retain his rights, to know the law prior to going out and risking violating the law. It is called being knowledgeable and responsible.

Also- it is not in your best interests to come off as being a wise guy- ie, asking people if they feel unsafe. It's just not good and puts people off- too confrontational IMO. That's not what you should be doing when you OC.

Lastly- do you have your CC license? If you do not, you violated the law again when you pulled your shirt out and covered up.

I think you need to be more careful if in fact these things are true. If not, I await your clarification.
 

wabbit

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Again, you have a cite definining dispense in 30-7-3.

You stated the law makes it clear...nope...

Ah, what time are your office hours...apparently you feel i need legal representation?
Clarification enough?
 

solus

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would this assist leading to settle the discussion ?

NM 60-3A-3. Definitions.
I. "dispenser" means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person's possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises;

ipse

addendum: where would wally fit into this definition so just to compound the discussion:
O. "licensed premises" means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant, "licensed premises" includes a restaurant that has operated continuously in two separate structures since July 1, 1987 and that is located in a local option district that has voted to disapprove the transfer of liquor licenses into that local option district, hotel, golf course or racetrack and all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack. "Licensed premises" also includes rural dispenser licenses located in the unincorporated areas of a county with a population of less than thirty thousand, located in buildings in existence as of January 1, 2012, that are within one hundred fifty feet of one another and that are under the direct control of the license holder;
 
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qednick

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Again, you have a cite definining dispense in 30-7-3.

You stated the law makes it clear...nope...

Ah, what time are your office hours...apparently you feel i need legal representation?
Clarification enough?
It is pretty clear actually. Just got your best interests at heart wabbit...I mean, a 4th degree felony is no laughing matter. Get one of those and you won't be able to carry anything (legally) for quite some time.
 

BB62

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would this assist leading to settle the discussion ?

NM 60-3A-3. Definitions.
I. "dispenser" means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person's possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises; ...
Scary stuff, but great find!
 

idea(l)s

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, , USA
Very interesting points of view

I guess we can't come to a consensus here, or can we .... ?

Maybe an opinion letter from the Attorney General can clarify things for all of us?
 

nuc65

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Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
OC Los Lunas, Bosque Farms, Peralta

30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.

A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:

...
(7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:

(a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and

(b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
Hello all,

I've been visiting for the past week and OC has garnered no comment. I haven't carried anywhere there is alcohol sold because I have always been unsure of this statute. However it seems like OC would be legal, if not sane, if one carried California style while shopping. What are the thoughts on this?

I'm not really sure how to make my piece completely inoperable though.

I appreciate any comments. I don't plan on being a test case for anything so I will CC in any situations where it is necessary.
 

Grapeshot

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Hello all,

I've been visiting for the past week and OC has garnered no comment. I haven't carried anywhere there is alcohol sold because I have always been unsure of this statute. However it seems like OC would be legal, if not sane, if one carried California style while shopping. What are the thoughts on this?

I'm not really sure how to make my piece completely inoperable though.

I appreciate any comments. I don't plan on being a test case for anything so I will CC in any situations where it is necessary.
"Question: I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun. As far as licensed liquor establishments are concerned, where can I legally carry my firearm?"

"Answer: As of July 1, 2010, 30-7-3 NMSA a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun in New Mexico is allowed to legally carry into a licensed liquor establishment that DOES NOT sell alcohol for consumption on the premise. Further a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun in New Mexico is allowed to carry into a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant. Please read and ensure that you thoroughly understand above-referenced statute."

http://www.dps.state.nm.us/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/concealedcarry-faqs/
 
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