Need some help: wife opposes me carrying

[DaveT319]

I must say, I'm extremely disappointed that many of you with the means and skills to help others would choose not to do so. This is a HUGE problem in our society: "It's not happening to me, so it's not my problem, none of my business". How self-centered of you. Really. You don't have to be a cop to help your fellow man. You would really see a person with a gun in their face and just turn and walk away? "Better him than me."

Yes, I have FOUR times helped make arrests:

• One was a homeless guy who started to fight with an officer as I was driving by; I got out and helped subdue the man, who was trying to bite and kick the officer.
• One was a shoplifter who ran from a cop, and I helped chase him down and hold him until other officers arrived.
• One was a bank robber who was unarmed being chased by the guard and 1 other citizen, so I joined in and helped hold the guy until officers arrived.
• One was an attempted beer skip that happened at a gas station while I was there; the guy started fighting with the clerks, so I grabbed the handcuffs that were in my car (I was a security officer at the time), helped subdue the man, and placed him in handcuffs.

Let me make this clear: not ONCE have I "sought out" these incidents. Not ONCE have I thought of being a hero. Instead, they happened to occur when I was there, and I felt it was my civic responsibility to act. People used to do that: get involved to stop bad things in their area. Now they just sit there, pull out their smartphone, and rather than call 911 they video record it to post on their YouTube channel.

That any one of you would turn your backs on someone who is in danger is deplorable. I understand that the PRIMARY reason for carrying a handgun is for SELF defense. But as a member of our community, if you have a situation occur in front of you, and you have the means to do something about it and don't, that is just cowardly. THIS is why our society is in the sh!tter with crime running rampant, because no one is willing to step up and stop it when it's in front of them.

Shame on all of you who would do nothing, or who think "being a good witness" is somehow as good as helping keep someone from getting killed.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I must say, I'm extremely disappointed that many of you with the means and skills to help others would choose not to do so. This is a HUGE problem in our society: "It's not happening to me, so it's not my problem, none of my business". How self-centered of you. Really. You don't have to be a cop to help your fellow man. You would really see a person with a gun in their face and just turn and walk away? "Better him than me."

Yes, I have FOUR times helped make arrests:

• One was a homeless guy who started to fight with an officer as I was driving by; I got out and helped subdue the man, who was trying to bite and kick the officer.
• One was a shoplifter who ran from a cop, and I helped chase him down and hold him until other officers arrived.
• One was a bank robber who was unarmed being chased by the guard and 1 other citizen, so I joined in and helped hold the guy until officers arrived.
• One was an attempted beer skip that happened at a gas station while I was there; the guy started fighting with the clerks, so I grabbed the handcuffs that were in my car (I was a security officer at the time), helped subdue the man, and placed him in handcuffs.

Let me make this clear: not ONCE have I "sought out" these incidents. Not ONCE have I thought of being a hero. Instead, they happened to occur when I was there, and I felt it was my civic responsibility to act. People used to do that: get involved to stop bad things in their area. Now they just sit there, pull out their smartphone, and rather than call 911 they video record it to post on their YouTube channel.

That any one of you would turn your backs on someone who is in danger is deplorable. I understand that the PRIMARY reason for carrying a handgun is for SELF defense. But as a member of our community, if you have a situation occur in front of you, and you have the means to do something about it and don't, that is just cowardly. THIS is why our society is in the sh!tter with crime running rampant, because no one is willing to step up and stop it when it's in front of them.

Shame on all of you who would do nothing, or who think "being a good witness" is somehow as good as helping keep someone from getting killed.

Self-defense takes many forms.

[heavy sigh]

 

[solus]

I must say, I'm extremely disappointed that many of you with the means and skills to help others would choose not to do so. This is a HUGE problem in our society: "It's not happening to me, so it's not my problem, none of my business". How self-centered of you. Really. You don't have to be a cop to help your fellow man. You would really see a person with a gun in their face and just turn and walk away? "Better him than me."

Yes, I have FOUR times helped make arrests:

• One was a homeless guy who started to fight with an officer as I was driving by; I got out and helped subdue the man, who was trying to bite and kick the officer.
• One was a shoplifter who ran from a cop, and I helped chase him down and hold him until other officers arrived.
• One was a bank robber who was unarmed being chased by the guard and 1 other citizen, so I joined in and helped hold the guy until officers arrived.
• One was an attempted beer skip that happened at a gas station while I was there; the guy started fighting with the clerks, so I grabbed the handcuffs that were in my car (I was a security officer at the time), helped subdue the man, and placed him in handcuffs.

Let me make this clear: not ONCE have I "sought out" these incidents. Not ONCE have I thought of being a hero. Instead, they happened to occur when I was there, and I felt it was my civic responsibility to act. People used to do that: get involved to stop bad things in their area. Now they just sit there, pull out their smartphone, and rather than call 911 they video record it to post on their YouTube channel.

That any one of you would turn your backs on someone who is in danger is deplorable. I understand that the PRIMARY reason for carrying a handgun is for SELF defense. But as a member of our community, if you have a situation occur in front of you, and you have the means to do something about it and don't, that is just cowardly. THIS is why our society is in the sh!tter with crime running rampant, because no one is willing to step up and stop it when it's in front of them.

Shame on all of you who would do nothing, or who think "being a good witness" is somehow as good as helping keep someone from getting killed.

DaveT, you're disappointed in us for being self centered? hummm.

ok, open question to forum members...those of you who are not LE, associated w/LE, POs, etc., oh and i must include those who are not into sexual bondage activities, CAN NOT ANSWER...ya i think that covers the known group...

how many of the remaining forum members keep handcuffs in their vehicle??

now to discuss the other aspect you brought up...

i have, on numerous occasions on this forum, stated my posture on defending others...isn't going to occur! My caveat ~ my firearm will be in the ready position and sliding backwards. there are too many variables and it is not my position to play judge and jury towards someone as i am not privileged to the complete situation or the bad guys or victim's background etc.

let me provide an example...within the last year a gentleman walked into a local gas station and found the clerk being robbed by a man holding a firearm...the gentleman pulled his firearm and shot the bad guy ~ dead. so for the crime of armed robbery, the bad guy got the death penalty. sorry do not subscribe to that kind of vigilante justice.

contemplate this situation...as was pointed out on this forum after the Colorado shooting...numerous folk like yourself stated unequivocally they would have blown the bad guy away...so you stand up and through the cloud of vapor, you shoot...and there is a scream (you killed an innocent as you missed the bad guy.) unbeknownst to you a woman in an aisle above you, sees you pull a gun and shoot and then hears the resulting scream...and she then shoots you (she had a clear shot so your arse is dead and the family is without a bread winner). another person lower sees her shoot you and takes her out....and so forth.

do not say it can't happen that way...it already has...

i therefore will be a good witness and i can personally live with the MORAL consequences of my actions and believe i can make a strong case when i pass to whomever will preside over my entrance to wherever i land. .

I am truly sorry you have not taken a strong hint being given to you, but if you are 'inadvertently' running into these types of situations, then you should really take the hint from whom or whatever in this universe is trying to tell you to be very very careful.

further, your judgment of posting your specific encounters on a public forum shows a lack of maturity and a great deal about you and you should consider putting the firearm away and listen to your partner...

ipse

 

[DaveT319]

how many of the remaining forum members keep handcuffs in their vehicle??

Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I said at the time I was working as a security officer, and I happened to have them in my vehicle. That was 14 years ago. I no longer work as a security officer, nor do I have handcuffs in my vehicle.

And if I HADN'T had the cuffs handy, I STILL would have gone to help subdue the bad guy.

let me provide an example...within the last year a gentleman walked into a local gas station and found the clerk being robbed by a man holding a firearm...the gentleman pulled his firearm and shot the bad guy ~ dead. so for the crime of armed robbery, the bad guy got the death penalty. sorry do not subscribe to that kind of vigilante justice.

A twist: A guy walks up to YOU with a gun and robs YOU. You draw and shoot, because a gun is a threat of deadly force. You kill him. He was only going to rob you, but you killed him. Is that really different, just because the threat was directed at YOU instead of a third person?

I am truly sorry you have not taken a strong hint being given to you, but if you are 'inadvertently' running into these types of situations, then you should really take the hint from whom or whatever in this universe is trying to tell you to be very very careful.

Why is "inadvertently" in quotes? I lived in a sh!tty town (Salinas, CA; look it up) and stuff happened. But you think I went looking for it or something? That's simply not the case.

further, your judgment of posting your specific encounters on a public forum shows a lack of maturity and a great deal about you and you should consider putting the firearm away and listen to your partner...

ipse

My posting the specific encounters is in direct response to you apparently not believing that I had done those things. Again, I did not do those things - or post about them now - to make myself out to be some sort of hero. I simply believe we have a duty to help our fellow man if we have the means to do so. And sitting back being a "good witness" is not helping if the guy gets killed.

 

[solus]

Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I said at the time I was working as a security officer, and I happened to have them in my vehicle. That was 14 years ago. I no longer work as a security officer, nor do I have handcuffs in my vehicle.

And if I HADN'T had the cuffs handy, I STILL would have gone to help subdue the bad guy.

A twist: A guy walks up to YOU with a gun and robs YOU. You draw and shoot, because a gun is a threat of deadly force. You kill him. He was only going to rob you, but you killed him. Is that really different, just because the threat was directed at YOU instead of a third person?

Why is "inadvertently" in quotes? I lived in a sh!tty town (Salinas, CA; look it up) and stuff happened. But you think I went looking for it or something? That's simply not the case.

My posting the specific encounters is in direct response to you apparently not believing that I had done those things. Again, I did not do those things - or post about them now - to make myself out to be some sort of hero. I simply believe we have a duty to help our fellow man if we have the means to do so. And sitting back being a "good witness" is not helping if the guy gets killed.

you know i have discerned those kind gentle folk who challenge my reading comprehension soon discover my skills are right on mark...

first point about the handcuffs...my point stands...you were a mall jockey w/handcuffs you kept in your vehicle instead of a locker at your place of employment?

lets discuss your what if nonsense shall we...
1. if the bad guy got close enough to me w/a gun, knife or other object capable of inflicting bodily injury, there is no way in God's green earth i would go for my firearm. not quite that stupid to incite or spook the bad guy for a shoot out at the OK corral!!
2. in a calm voice i would open my hands and tell the bad guy i was going into my pocket to get my money for them.
3. the bills would be pulled out in open palm... once the bills are shown to the bad guy they would be thrown on the ground and i would run like the devil.
4. after the fact, i would replay the situation wondering where i screwed up my SA to allow someone to get that close...

this information has consistently shared and previously stated by myself on this forum. it is mentally and physically practiced so it appears a smooth transition.

your living environment is your problem and necessitates a validation of your SA so you can adequately protect those you hold dear...that is not germane to you requiring to OC a firearm. your insistent perception and mentality you have an obligation to protect the weak and innocent is quite dangerous to everyone around a situation going down as you could easily take an innocent down, and now begins to cause me alarm.

to reiterate something apparently your comprehension can't grasp...i can sleep at night with my practiced defense of my loved one(s) from the protection tools i have available but understand this explicitly: i owe no obligation, moral or otherwise, to protect 'john q citizen' and won't!

to the best of my knowledge...let me look...nope... i did not challenge your perception of your encounters? but interestingly, you felt the need to provide details and share for everyone for what purpose?

what i did publicly indicate is that i was of the opinion you have not been forthcoming from your original post a month ago to date...and it seems my reading comprehension from the beginning was correct...

how is my comprehension coming along DaveT?

ipse

 

[DaveT319]

first point about the handcuffs...my point stands...you were a mall jockey w/handcuffs you kept in your vehicle instead of a locker at your place of employment?

You still think you have this figured out, huh? Did I say I worked at a mall? Did I say I KEPT my handcuffs in the car? First, there were no lockers at my place of employment (NOT a mall). Second, I HAPPENED to have them in my vehicle, having just 5 minutes before picked them up from a co-worker I had loaned them to (again, no lockers at work so I didn't want him leaving them at the office where someone might walk off with them, cuz you know most security officers are not saints).

So no, your point about the cuffs does NOT stand. But go on thinking you have it figured out about me, and not talking out of your a$$.

to the best of my knowledge...let me look...nope... i did not challenge your perception of your encounters? but interestingly, you felt the need to provide details and share for everyone for what purpose?

The perception of my encounters? I'm not even sure what that means, but you did seem to question whether they had happened by this statement:

...but you just claimed to have, how many?

"Claimed", like you thought I was making it up. So I provided details to show you they're real.

 

[wimwag]

I must be a psychic. I foresaw this lol popcorn please

 

[b0neZ]

I must be a psychic. I foresaw this lol popcorn please

I have a 5 gallon bucket. Here, take all you need.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

This topic has already been debated on other threads, and the words "sheepdog" and "White Knight" seem to get thrown around a bit.

No side ever truly "wins" the others over, and the ONLY semi-consensus was that the choice to actively defend others unrelated to you is a PERSONAL decision to make, hence the reason I posted "I've already decided to defend only my loved ones or myself...".

I'll also admit, way back when I was a new member of OCDO rolleyes::lol: just trying to keep things light-hearted), I used to consider myself a sheepdog. Heavy introspection and some very thoughtful input from members helped me realize I may be closer to the animal immortalized in the Gadsden flag.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I'm open to help many of my fellow citizens, just my nature.

I would hesitate helping the police.

 

[user]

"To protect you from people who want to rob the store."
"To protect you from muggers and rapists."
"To protect you from car-jackers."
"Because I love you and I want to be sure you're safe."

 

[DaveT319]

I'm open to help many of my fellow citizens, just my nature.

I would hesitate helping the police.

May I ask why you would be hesitant to help the police? In a way, we're on the same team: we hate bad guys. Granted, they sometimes try to make bad guys out of the good guys, but if they are in trouble I would think us good guys would want to help.

Now in a shooting, I can understand hesitancy, as you may be mistaken for a bad guy. But I think I'd rather take that chance than watch a cop get killed.

 

[7om5hipp]

I can't blame him, I would be wary about helping the police as well. As for the same team, nope, I don't get paid or wear a badge. And the bad guys, don't hate them unless they endanger my family.

Sent from my NX008HD8G using Tapatalk

 

[DaveT319]

What a strange position to take. You don't hate bad guys on general principle?

 

[Grapeshot]

I can't blame him, I would be wary about helping the police as well. As for the same team, nope, I don't get paid or wear a badge. And the bad guys, don't hate them unless they endanger my family.

I "hate" very little.

I do dislike intensely what they represent and the danger they present as long as they are allowed to ply their trade.

I do not support vigilantism in any form, but I also recognize that the BG that threatens deadly force only got to me or mine because someone before that incident did not stop them.

Is a dilemma.

If most of society took the position of let officer Mikey do it we'd be.............exactly where we are = under siege it seems sometimes.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I "hate" very little.

I do dislike intensely what they represent and the danger they present as long as they are allowed to ply their trade.

I do not support vigilantism in any form, but I also recognize that the BG that threatens deadly force only got to me or mine because someone before that incident did not stop them.

Is a dilemma.

If most of society took the position of let officer Mikey do it we'd be.............exactly where we are = under siege it seems sometimes.

hate
hāt/
verb
1.
feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).
"the boys hate each other"

 

[7om5hipp]

I don't hate, to me hate means that I want nothing to do with it in any way. My spine is curved in a way that it should not curve because I had a horse use my back as a springboard as a child, but I do not "hate" horses for it, not a fan of them but I do not hate them.

As for helping the police, I do not have the "training" that they had nor the authority to decide who is right and who is wrong. If you came upon a fight where one person had a knife and the other a gun what would you do? How do you decide who is right and who is wrong? If you pull your firearm and do not fire you are now brandishing your weapon, and if you do fire and inure the man who was actually defending himself, you have discharged your firearm and shoot an innocent person.

There are far to many variables for me to go around playing the hero, I have to think of my family before others. If the ROE were easier I would change my mind but alas they are not. I did not begin to carry with the intent to stop crime, it was to help my kids not be afraid to walk down a section of sidewalk where a dog lived, a dog that had nearly killed one of our puppies while out for a walk.

I'd not mean to say so much but it is early, and storming out so heh. Happens.

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[DaveT319]

As for helping the police, I do not have the "training" that they had nor the authority to decide who is right and who is wrong. If you came upon a fight where one person had a knife and the other a gun what would you do? How do you decide who is right and who is wrong? If you pull your firearm and do not fire you are now brandishing your weapon, and if you do fire and injure the man who was actually defending himself, you have discharged your firearm and shoot an innocent person.

First off, helping the police and coming upon a fight are two different things.

Second, in your example, yes, you should not shoot or even draw, as you don't know the whole story. I'm thinking more along the line of you're in a convenience store and someone comes in to rob the place. You know EXACTLY who the bad guy is in that case.

 

[7om5hipp]

And if their intent is to rob, and show no desire to hurt someone I will let them do it. There is no need for me to draw a weapon and make the person freak out and risk them doing something stupid and hurting someone. Hence why clerks are taught to comply and not resist.

If the robber has a knife or a gun, I will draw but stay out of sight just in case things go south. But I won't step out and point it at the robber because I don't want them to freak out and shoot someone. How would you feel if you pulled a firearm and the robber shot the clerk because they panicked, didn't work out did it and it happened because you wanted to be a hero.

As for helping the police, when they help me by leaving me alone and recognizing my right to carry I might help.

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[DaveT319]

And if their intent is to rob, and show no desire to hurt someone I will let them do it.

How do you KNOW their only intent is to rob and not to kill? How do you KNOW they won't get pissed at how little they get from you and attack?

If someone is going to point a weapon at someone, you have to assume they are willing to use it. To think otherwise could be a fatal mistake.