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No knock warrants

Marco

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call the police from your cell and let them know your location ask/demand a marked car
 

lockman

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LEO 229 wrote:
What if an unmarked car pulls up behind you and turns on a blue light? You have no way of knowing the guy is a real cop till you speak with him.

You can run..... submitting that people buy used cop cars and dress them up with blue lights. Your still going to be charged with eluding.

§ 46.2-817. Disregarding signal by law-enforcement officer to stop; eluding police; penalties.

This is a classic case of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't"

Fortunately.... I have not read about criminals dressing up as cops to do a home invasion so I do not think this should be a big concern.


They was a major outbreak of impersonations in the Chicago area several years back and the state police advised youto pull away, travel at normal speeds, obey all traffic laws and proceed to the nearest police station of populated area such as a mall or place where many people will be present. This was specifically for cases involving unmarked cars not bearing "official" plates or unmarked cars with non-uniformed people exiting the vehicle.

When taking their advise, my only question is: where does fleeing and/or eluding come into this equation?
 

PT111

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There was a case here in SC that made national news a few years ago. Highway Patrolman tried to stop a lady on the I-95 and she claimed she was looking for asafe place to stop. Problem was she drove 25 miles past 6 exits and the LEO was in a marked car with lights flashing during broad daylight. The entire thing was filmed.

When she finally stopped he went crazy on her and was fired. Part of it was also a race issue that he was fired but the LEO did lose control.
 

expvideo

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Doug Huffman wrote:
lockman wrote:
When taking their advise, my only question is: where does fleeing and/or eluding come into this equation?
You mean like OJ's low-speed evasion? No shots were fired.
I don't think shots being fired has anything to do with this. I'm talking about not pulling over until a marked police car arrives, not shooting out a tire, lol
 

LEO 229

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Mainsail wrote:
Here's everything you didn't want to know about no-knock raids. Frightening stuff....

So in 22 years there are a total of 296 negative entries.

Can we find out how many of the same warrants were served in the same time period that were positive and worthwhile?

The world is not perfect...You have only posted the bad stuff.

Now show me the good and we can accurately decide if this type of activity is being abused.


It equates to 13 mistakes a year and I am very confident that more than 1000 no knock warrantsare done on a yearly basis.
 

HankT

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HankT wrote:
It is too horrible a specter for me to worry about, I've decided. That story of the old woman is a nightmare, for sure.

I, too, violate no laws. No drugs, no booze, no fights, no nothing...OK, maybe a little speeding on the interstate.

I'm pretty sure that there is a a very low number annuallyof no-knock warrant invasions which are totally in error. Like the one with the 91 year old woman. Maybe less than 50*? I don't really know the number but it is tiny. Of that tiny number, only a fraction (maybe 20-30%) have guns in the home. Of that yet smaller number only a fraction will actually be able to deploy the gun in time to actually do some damage to the intruders....a

So the way I think about it, I have a really really small chance of having it happen to me. The numerator is, maybe, 10 and the denominator is around 110 million. That justifies, forme, ignoring the prospect of it happening.


LEO 229 wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Here's everything you didn't want to know about no-knock raids. Frightening stuff....

So in 22 years there are a total of 296 negative entries.

Can we find out how many of the same warrants were served in the same time period that were positive and worthwhile?

The world is not perfect...You have only posted the bad stuff.

Now show me the good and we can accurately decide if this type of activity is being abused.


It equates to 13 mistakes a year and I am very confident that more than 1000 no knock warrantsare done on a yearly basis.

Not bad, if I do say so myself....
 

LEO 229

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HankT wrote:
HankT wrote:
It is too horrible a specter for me to worry about, I've decided. That story of the old woman is a nightmare, for sure.

I, too, violate no laws. No drugs, no booze, no fights, no nothing...OK, maybe a little speeding on the interstate.

I'm pretty sure that there is a a very low number annuallyof no-knock warrant invasions which are totally in error. Like the one with the 91 year old woman. Maybe less than 50*? I don't really know the number but it is tiny. Of that tiny number, only a fraction (maybe 20-30%) have guns in the home. Of that yet smaller number only a fraction will actually be able to deploy the gun in time to actually do some damage to the intruders....a

So the way I think about it, I have a really really small chance of having it happen to me. The numerator is, maybe, 10 and the denominator is around 110 million. That justifies, forme, ignoring the prospect of it happening.


LEO 229 wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Here's everything you didn't want to know about no-knock raids. Frightening stuff....

So in 22 years there are a total of 296 negative entries.

Can we find out how many of the same warrants were served in the same time period that were positive and worthwhile?

The world is not perfect...You have only posted the bad stuff.

Now show me the good and we can accurately decide if this type of activity is being abused.


It equates to 13 mistakes a year and I am very confident that more than 1000 no knock warrantsare done on a yearly basis.

Not bad, if I do say so myself....

Total homes in US = 63,000,000

You have a 1 in 4,846,153 chance each yearof getting your door kicked in and have something bad happen by the police with a no knock warrant.

People here are overly paranoid.

If your really worried about it.... just sell your house and live out of your car. :p
 

expvideo

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I'm sure you could throw up some horrible odds for being falsely arrested too, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Your odds of being stabbed with a broken bottle are low too, but I'm sure you'd be cautious of angry drunk people.

I'm sure you only have a 1 in 1000 chance of getting a speeding ticket this year, and even less of a chance of fighting it, and less yet of winning. Let's see, probably a 1 in 50000 chance of beating a speeding ticket this year.

Does that mean that you should never worry about having to beat a speeding ticket? I mean those odds are pretty low.



I work for a phone company, and we have over 50,000,000 customers. Of those customers there are maybe only 5,000 mistakes on bills every month. That's a 1 in 10,000 chance of having a mistake on your bill. Are you still going to review your bill every month, or are you going to not worry about it, since the odds are so low that we would probably never make a mistake on your bill?


Your odds of being in a car accident or a plane crash are also very low, but you probably are concerned about the possibility.
 

molonlabetn

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HankT wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:

Total homes in US = 63,000,000

That's not right.

Total households is around 105 to 110 million.

I guess we can see by that, approximatelyhow many'households' live in apartments, then...







To answer the OP, if my house was broken into without announcement... I wouldn't go investigate without first calling 911. Whoever did the breaking in would have to deal with a very angry German Shepherd and Rottweiler. That'd give me time to be ready to feed whoever tried to open the bedroom door a face-full ofdouble-aught. (through the door, if necessary).

If they are police, and properly identify themselves... or if the 911 dispatcher can confirm their identity, noone would have to get hurt.

I agree with Hank that the likelihood for a mistaken no-knock is very low... thus it is prudent to treat any violentbreak-in as a criminal intent on doingone harm, untillearning otherwise.
 

LEO 229

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HankT wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:

Total homes in US = 63,000,000

That's not right.

Total households is around 105 to 110 million.

Well.... If that is the case... the odds of getting your door kicked in just got cut in half.

And we have not even added in packing 10 guns to decrease your odd further.. :lol:
 
G

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When they do such an attack on a house, correct house or not, I think the bottom line is surrender or die.Their mentality is subdue and capture. And any armed resistors will be shot (killed).The attackers are heavily armed and armored so I think the outcome is pretty well in their favor.

Little story. Last sunday I'm watching the game. Theres a knock at the door. I peek out and its a deputy sherrif, hand on holstered weapon. In my yard is a second deputywith an friggin ar-15 single point slung straight down with his hand on the grip. And another deputy in the street.

I opened the door and he asks me something about a black male and an altercation. I said 'no I'm just watching the game'. He asks if a black male lives here. Answer: No.He asks if I heard anything going on around here. Answer: No.He then says my address was given about this call. I basically say I have no idea wtf.

Then his buddy calls them over to a mixed group of black and white puerto ricans 4 houses down. He said 'thanks', and walked off. They were over there for all of three minutes and then left.

A little later I called to get an explaination as the ar seemed a bit much for an altercation. They tell me the call was about someone brandishing during this altercation. Ok now it makes a little more sense. And what about my address? Well he says, it was called in anonymously as 7700 'my street'. Then "somehow" it gets sent to the reponders as 7703 'my street' ME! 7700 doesnt actually exist. I somewhat suspect they cross checked the address with the CC permit holders list and wah lah lets knock on this guys door. Yes yes I'm sure it didnt happen like that and they would never do such a thing..

Now how the frick they didnt see4 or 5 blacks 40 yards away, the ONLY people outside at the time and ask them if they saw anything, is beyond me. Atleast one patrol car came from that way! Ofcourse none of the LEO's spoke spanish and they had to get another neighbor to translate:)

This is OT maybe but does show how armed police show up at your door and in your yard with some firepower and thinking you may be a bad guy when you least expect it.

Oh yeah. And I can only imagine what might have happened had I been OC'ing in my home at the time. :what:
 

HankT

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StrictlySig wrote:
When they do such an attack on a house, correct house or not, I think the bottom line is surrender or die.Their mentality is subdue and capture. And any armed resistors will be shot (killed).The attackers are heavily armed and armored so I think the outcome is pretty well in their favor.

Sometimes, the problem is simple. I think you nailed it.

Not only is the mentality as you describe, the procedures, well-established ones at that, are similarly and totally control-based.

I am amused by the folks who think they can start shooting with real LEOs and "sort thingsout later."

Their heirs, not on the property when the bullets start flying,will be sorting things out later.
 

RU98A

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LEO 229 wrote:
It is hard to get a no knock warrant and you have to have to get a judge to sign off on it. This is obviously designed to prevent the police from doing it all the time.
Nothard to get at all if the cops lie to the judge like they did in Atlanta when they killed the 91 year old granny. Aw, silly me I forgot that the courts have ruled it is OK for the cops to lie.
 

LEO 229

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Agent19 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
So in 22 years there are a total of 296 negative entries.
those are good #'s unless your one of those 296

We have far more people killed every year from traffic accidents. Should we either ban cars or limit the speed of cars to 15 mph limit?

We have to look at the odds of being killed before we ban something. We have far more motorists on the road NOT being killed so the few deadly accidents are unfortunately acceptable.

When a human does something... there is a chance someone will be killed. It is tragic but that is how it goes.

If all people were good and never broke the rules... far less people would die at the hands of criminals, reckless drivers, and cops.
 

expvideo

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LEO 229 wrote:
We have far more people killed every year from traffic accidents. Should we either ban cars or limit the speed of cars to 15 mph limit?

We have to look at the odds of being killed before we ban something. We have far more motorists on the road NOT being killed so the few deadly accidents are unfortunately acceptable.

When a human does something... there is a chance someone will be killed. It is tragic but that is how it goes.

If all people were good and never broke the rules... far less people would die at the hands of criminals, reckless drivers, and cops.

That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one. Blaming the people collectively for a few people not being good does not justify the actions of police officers who kill innocent people.

And more people dieing in car accidents is a lousy excuse to continue with an illegal and unconstitutional policy. You can't justify a wrong action by relating it to a more wrong action. That's like saying the holicost wasn't a big deal because more people die for smoking related reasons every year. Therefor we shouldn't question "jew-burning" because it's an innevitability.

When are you going to understand that the odds are insignificant. What is significant is the number 296. That number is too high. 1 is too high. If only 296 alterboys were raped by priests in the same period of time, I'd still reconsider the idea of being an alterboy.

You can't justify these actions by pointing out more common causes of death. The arguement is irrelevant. You seem to be big on the numbers and you don't seem to understand that numbers don't work like that.

Here's why your numbers are wrong:

Are you saying that if I live 30 miles from society in some back-woods area I have the same odds of mistakenly having my door kicked in as I would living in an apartment complex full of illegal aliens and drug dealers?
 

LEO 229

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expvideo wrote:
That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one. Blaming the people collectively for a few people not being good does not justify the actions of police officers who kill innocent people.

And more people dieing in car accidents is a lousy excuse to continue with an illegal and unconstitutional policy. You can't justify a wrong action by relating it to a more wrong action. That's like saying the holicost wasn't a big deal because more people die for smoking related reasons every year. Therefor we shouldn't question "jew-burning" because it's an innevitability.

When are you going to understand that the odds are insignificant. What is significant is the number 296. That number is too high. 1 is too high. If only 296 alterboys were raped by priests in the same period of time, I'd still reconsider the idea of being an alterboy.

You can't justify these actions by pointing out more common causes of death. The arguement is irrelevant. You seem to be big on the numbers and you don't seem to understand that numbers don't work like that.

Here's why your numbers are wrong:

Are you saying that if I live 30 miles from society in some back-woods area I have the same odds of mistakenly having my door kicked in as I would living in an apartment complex full of illegal aliens and drug dealers?

I am going to guess you missed the point completely.

Driving around in a car...

Notrequired. This is something optional that people decide to do and theyknow the risk. They do it because that risk is outweighed by the benefit. The odds are very small that they will be killed.

No knock warrants...

Not required either. But the small risk of someone being harmed is far outweighed by the benefit of catching the criminal and/or collecting his illegal contraband. Again.. the odds are very small that someone will be killed.

Police traffic stops....

Not required either. There is always the risk thatthe cop could be shot bythe driver,struck by a motorist,or rear ended. This is known and an acceptable risk in order to make the streets safer for other motorists. Again.. the odds are very small that someone will be killed.

So no matter what you do..... there is always a chance of injury or death. If you banned everything that could cause harm.. you would not be able to do much of anything.

You may not like it... But death or injury inlow percentages is unfortunately an acceptable risk in everything we do on this earth.

You like to eat, right? Do we need to get rid of farm tractors? We can go back to horse drawn plows.

Tractor accidents on farms cause the highest number of fatalities with tractor overturns accounting for 44 percent of all tractor fatalities.
 
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