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OC in winter

Chief Ten Beers

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
I'm just meaning that there are serious drawbacks (in my mind) to carrying a single-action revolver for self-defense. First and foremost is that you have to cock the hammer each time, which seems to make quick follow-up shots much slower. Then besides the capacity (part of the reason I'm biased against revolvers, plus they've never felt comfortable in my hand), don't a lot of them have to be unloaded and reloaded one round at a time?

True, the imposing hole of a .45 barrel is going to give most people pause, but that's usually when face to face. Any farther and it's going to have less effect. I just believe there are better options out there.

And yes, it's better to carry something - anything - than to not carry at all.
With a 7 1/2 inch barrel, I can reach out and touch someone. Let's put it this way DaveT, I would not want to be shooting at myself at 50 to 75 yards, I would hit myself.

Uberti Regulator 2.jpg

Uberti Regulator 4.jpg

But to put your mind at ease there DaveT, since I posted my first comment on here, I did buy a new Hi-Point JHP .45 ACP, and a uned Llama .380, so now I have more of a choice as what to carry.
 
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Perkins

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Washington
The point about capacity with a revolver is a fair one. You can get 7 rounds easily in a .357 swing gate, but most .44 and .45LC are 6 shot. Compact revolvers and large caliber revolvers tend to hold 5. Old ones, without a between-the-cylinder rest or a transfer bar need a chamber left empty, further reducing the practical capacity. Many DAO and S/DA revolvers are swing gate, which will spit the shells out via an ejector rod and can be quickly reloaded with a speedloader. Small revolvers are often top break, which will spit empties out automatically when you open them (a spring hits them, which lifts unspent shells a little ways, but sends the lighter empties flying). Some expect the cylinder to be removed for reloading (North American Arms Blackwidow and the walker and dragoon colts). Generally, if the revolver is not a swing gate or top break, the cylinder is loaded through a port, one chamber at a time. However, most of these have easily removable cylinders. With a bit of practice you can change cylinders about as fast as a semi-auto can change magazines. Of course you still have the limited number of rounds per cylinder, and spare cylinders tend to be more expensive (and heavier!) than extra mags. As for SAO for self-defence and everyday carry, the time to first shot is unaffected by having to pull the hammer back. As you begin your draw, your thumb cocks the hammer essentially on its way past. Second shots are slowed slightly if you are shooting with one hand; but, with large calibers (.44 mag et cetera), generally this delay is swallowed by the time taken to get back on target anyway. Shooting with two hands, one hand can run the hammer and the other the trigger, which can allow very rapid firing (hold the trigger down and fan). SAO actions tend to be slightly less likely to fail than S/DA, though generally a S/DA which fails turns either into SAO or DAO rather than totally failing, so I don't see a strong reason to prefer SAO over S/DA. If I had to choose SAO or DAO, I'd go SAO every time, it is easier to be accurate at long distances with SAO, thanks to a light trigger pull.

As for revolvers in general, for self-defence carry... Capacity tends not to be too big of an issue, most of the time. I remember hearing something like an average of 2-3 shots being fired in the usual self-defence situation. So if you're carrying a revolver with 5, you're probably fine. Add in a spare cylinder or speed loader, which could potentially hold an additional 6 rounds if you're in the leave-an-empty boat, and you're looking at 10-11 rounds of .45LC, which is ~3-5x the number usually used. My thinking is that if I need more than that, it's time to get to my rifle.

I dislike relying on mechanical safeties to prevent accidents. It is rather unlikely for a SAO revolver to fire unintentionally when its hammer is resting on an empty. Something would have to catch the hammer spur and pull it back, then pull the trigger. This is the reason I prefer SAO over DA revolvers, which only require a hard pull on the trigger. Consequently, I'm not a big fan of the cocked-and-locked method of carry. True, it is superior to carrying a semi-auto with an empty chamber, but all it takes is getting the mechanical safety bumped and you can have an accident. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCDNtRZsYU) I think there may be some semi-autos which allow the hammer to be placed on a half-cock, which puts them about on the same footing as a SAO revolver for going from safe-as-is-practical to ready-to-fire, except that the hammer spur is generally too small to catch with a thumb on the way by easily.

The second reason (and more major one for me) to prefer revolvers to semi-autos is reliability. It is possible to have a revolver break or jam, often from bad ammunition or being coated in mud. However the mode of failure most of the time does not render the revolver inoperative. As I mentioned before, S/DA revolvers often become DAO or SAO. In one incident I reviewed, the trigger got bent when the OCer dove for cover, so he had to fan the hammer to continue shooting (the trigger stuck in the pulled position; Details here). The most serious failure I encountered was when my brother got a box of bad ammo and didn't notice that the first bullet lodged in the barrel. The second shot mushroomed the end of the barrel. In an emergency, the gun would have made an acceptable third shot even with the mushroomed barrel. Most failures I have experienced with semi-autos must be fixed before operation may resume.

In the interest of full disclosure, and to answer the original question of this thread: My rig is similar to Chief's, except the belt and holster aren't so fancily tooled (they're hand made by me, and I don't have the patience for frills), and don't have the ammo loops (which are uncomfortable for sitting a long time). Oh, and it's a left handed holster, which I think is part of why people often don't notice it, something about it not being where they'd expect it. As for what I carry, it's a .45-70 BFR from MRI, and like Chief said, the 11.5" sight picture makes it easy to hit human sized targets at 75 yards.
 

ron73440

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
470
Location
Suffolk VA
With a 7 1/2 inch barrel, I can reach out and touch someone. Let's put it this way DaveT, I would not want to be shooting at myself at 50 to 75 yards, I would hit myself.

View attachment 11673

View attachment 11674

But to put your mind at ease there DaveT, since I posted my first comment on here, I did buy a new Hi-Point JHP .45 ACP, and a uned Llama .380, so now I have more of a choice as what to carry.
Very nice.
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,054
Location
Lawton, OK USA
Put on the speedo's, head to the beach, and lock the thread! (BTW, I think the caliber thing is so freakin wore out. I had a co-worker killed by a .22 Carry what ya got.)
 

NewZealandAmerican

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
Serpa Holster

My Serpa holster sticks out far enough to open carry over my coat. It is not so good for CC like I originally bought it for. Oops. Tend to CC a little more in winter.

David


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Is your Serpa Holster similar to or is a "duty holster" like what regular patrol police officers wear which I notice place the stock of the pistol nearly 2 inches from the side of your body as opposed to my leather De Santis belt loop OWB holster which tucks the stock of my pistol nearly snug against the side of my body?
 

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MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
895
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
EEGads, Perkins.... way too much information and off topic to boot.

Here in Wyoming folks have had winter "coat carry" CC for a long time. Nobody much pays attention either way. Finally got rid of the pearl clutchers who insisted on some damned piece of paper to "permit" coat carry. Dumb asses.

Only a few rules for effective carry either way:

1. Have a gun (or more) and keep it (or several) on your body - Oh, and know how to use the darn thing
2. Watch where you are going and pay attention to everything around you
3. If in doubt of circumstances, take along friends with guns and extra ammo

That about covers it.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,831
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
Since I have a CPL, I just don't worry about it. I just let the weather, and clothing determine my carry method. I use a large Serpa paddle holster, so if I had to OC I would just tuck my jacket behind it. Here in WA it doesn't get very cold anyway.
+1 With the recent change in MO law so I can OC everywhere I CC, I am finally free to just where what I want and let the carry be what it is.

For nearly a decade I had the opposite problem of the OP being that I had to CC most of the time so warm weather was my nemisis requiring dressing for my gun so I am certainly sympathetic to the problem. I am a proponent of both carry methods just for personal convenience.
 

NewZealandAmerican

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
Looking for "open carry" friendly jackets

I tried some searches online for "open carry jackets" and also "side zippered jackets" and can't find anything. Also looked on 5.11's website same thing. Can anyone give me info on jackets that have a side zipper for me open carrying an OWB belt loop holster at my "3 o'clock" position??
 

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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
http://www.solar1clothing.com/police-parka-duty-jacket-mx02/



FEATURES:

Waterproof -Breathable outer shell.
Factory sealed seams (taped).
Removable 3M Thinsulate liner with unique.
Pit construction for freedom of movement.
Two piece sleeves.
10" side zipper vents with snap tab closures for easy access to equipment.
Fleece lined hand warmer pockets.
Epaulets with velcro closure for easy access to buttons.
YKK Zipper Front.
Optional seal quality pile collar with button attachment.
Badge Tab.
Large inside zippered pockets.
27 1/2" jacket length.
Top and side entry flap pockets with reversed pleats.
Adjustable sleeve cuffs with velcro closure.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,971
Location
Henrico
^Not bad.

I'm considering having a tailor modify my favorite jacket for OC. Would probably be cheaper than a new jacket.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
I tried some searches online for "open carry jackets" and also "side zippered jackets" and can't find anything. Also looked on 5.11's website same thing. Can anyone give me info on jackets that have a side zipper for me open carrying an OWB belt loop holster at my "3 o'clock" position??
I think I've mentioned this before -

Your local Alerations/Tailoring place can usually cut a slot, hem up the edges, and sew in a zipper or some hook&loop for a very reasonable price. With so many garments having a seam running down at the 3 o'clock position it's easy to "hide" the alteration when you are not OCing.

stay safe.
 
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