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Open carry in mass

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
Timf,

I am not disagreeing with you. If open carrying were a normal matter here in MA as it is in LV, then we, and Lelo would not have a problem. Unfortunately, it is not the case at present.

Here in MA, carrying openly could be viewed, especially by our court system*, as a breach of the peace, because it wouldcause a "normally prudent person" to believe that apossible crime might occur.While I would love to disagree with that view point, it is not up to me, but a judge or jury. Forget the state legislature, as it is a one party political system here. (Dems outnumber the GOP by 3:1)

*In MA, the justice system is considered just left of Communism, especially the SJC (Supreme Judicial Court).

Ha Ha Ha!!! 3 to 1???? Try out of 40 state senators ONLY 4 are Republicans (that's 9 to 1), and in the HOuse, it is what? 80%+, I forget. At one point it was something like 88% Dems, entire "General Court", but Republicans grabbed some Reps seats. What? How can u say that of the SJC? Just because of the New whacko far lefties they added to the bench, and just because previous chief Justice Margaret Marshall (was that her name) retired, and she wasn't even an American!!! She was from South Africa. The person who brought us gay marriage!!! We have many a fine Jurist in our State... cough cough.... like Cindy McAvoy....and the bankruptcy Judge who got arrested for drunk driving in Manchester, NH, in a DRESS!!! cuz he's a transvestite, and he was up at a club. How can you disparge the great legal minds of our State?
As I said, above, it would be viewed as "brandishing a firearm", as a "threat", as an "assault", as a "breach of the peace", as "disturbing the peace", as "disorderly conduct", as whatever they want to make it up to be, even if you have a class A license to carry. Because that is their agenda, they got the memo.
Yet, cops get a pass!! I'm more fearful of a cop carrying a gun than I am of a private person carrying a gun. I remember some years ago, I forget where or when (not in Mass or nor'east), but I think I was on a road trip. I pulled in for gas, get a drink inside. When inside, these two guys walked in with handguns in holsters on theirs. I being a martial artist was aware and ready. They both talked to the gal working behind the counter. She seemed to know them. They seemed ok. They did not seem to be cops, or sheriffs. So I was not concerned. I got my drink, paid for it, and left. It didn't alarm me. I didn't call the cops. Why didn't I?
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
mrsemman wrote:
mrsemman

its my rights to carry no matter where igo..thats why i have a ltc with no restriction.in my area where i live its very respecful and good people all around..but the area where i work its the opposite way..gang activities anddrugs, etc etc..i believe there should be open carry for all states in this country..especially for all lawabiding citizen with a lawful LTC..me personally i feel safer around people with open carrybecause i believe if you have a LTC its because you are a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide!!!

Where do u work? Dudley Square?
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
Lelo,

I agree with you on everything that you wrote. I believe that we all have that right based on the 2nd Ammendment to the Constitution. However, do your rights supercede someone else's? Or do their rights supercede yours? As I wrote earlier, if you travel or work in a bad area, carry your weapon. The reason I would conceal my weapon in those areas, is simple. I don't want the bad guys trying to get my weapon. Most times they did not even see it, or if they did, they thought I was a cop.

I used to work as a criminal investigator for the State Public Defenders Office back in the early 70's. I carried a Colt Trooper MKIII .357 in a Bill Jordan quick draw holster under a sport jacket. It definitely showed a large bulge. I only had one incident where a bad guy tried to do me harm, until he saw the wrong end of the revolver in his nose. Nobody else ever messed with me.

Well, yeah, but the other reason is, is that the "bad guys" might just come out at you 10 at a time with Uzi's, gun down your a** just to take your gun, just cuz they saw it. Again, reality, common sense, logic, awareness. "If the Tiger's sleeping, don't kick it in the head".

What Right of someone else am I superceding by my exercising my 2nd Amend Right to "keep and bear arms"? Simply because they are self deluded into thinking that it is wrong, bad, dangerous, or criminal to have a gun, that they have "self inflicted" themselves with fear, that they have permitted themselves to be brainwashed by anti gun whackos? I have a 1st Amend Right to Freedom of Speech. If I say "I don't like you", is that superceding someone else's Right to be liked? or not have to hear someone say "i don't like you"? There is no "superceding" of Rights. It's what it is. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Press. Hell, I'm offended all day, every day by what is in the Press, published in books. Communist manifestos for sale in Harvard Square, and at Publishing place on Green St, in Jamaica Plains (Boston). Do I have the Right NOT to have to see and read that crap? I don't like Religion, believe in it, have any use for it. So is my Right superceded by "their" Right to Freedom of Religion? Or is it simply the American way, culture, society, laws, Constitution that everyone has to be tolerant of others' differences? Just so long as they don't force anyone into their way, or harm anyone. I could claim I am a Druid (which I often do just to shut people up and shock Mormons and Born Agains), and claim that my religious practice is to sacrifice virgins on a rock!!! Does that mean I have the right to go out and grab virgins and sacrifice them on a rock? Of course not. Nor do Christian Scientist have the right to forceably tell or prevent other people from going to see a Doctor. To each his own, just don't force it on me. What was the quote of a US Supreme Court Chief Justice? I forget who, who said something to the effect of "The constitution does not protect speech with is popular, but protects speech which is not". The same for the 2nd Amend. Anyone can make up in their own mind that they are afraid of something, offended by something, shocked by something, and then claim that they have a specific Right which outweighs all others. You could claim you are afraid of cars, so outlaw all cars, you are offended by Alcoholic drink, so pass an Amendment Prohibiting Alcohol (oh yeah, that worked out really well, didn't it), that you're afraid of all dogs, so outlaw all dogs. Where does it end? Where is the line?
If you don't need a License to Speak, or to Press (newspaper, TV, publishing), to Religion, to Vote, then why do you need a License to own and carry a gun, when, just as with Speech, Religion, Press, Voting, the 2nd Amend, specifically states "........the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".. So if we can infringe upon our 2nd Amend right, then why can't be infringe upon our 1st Amend Right, and require a License to Speak? What is the difference?
Oh, further, what isn't covered under the 2nd Amend is covered under the 9th Amend.
Oh, by the way, as to the first half of the 2nd Amend "A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, .....",.. I am a member of the Militia. Any time the Governor wishes to "call up" the Militia, I will be there. However, in our time, in reality, the last known time in U.S. History, that I know of, that a Governor "call out" the Militia was the Governor of Maryland during WW II. When "good citizens" came out and served in a coast watching duty, for German subs, ships, and planes. Granted they didn't actually do anything, but that was the last time I know of, that the "militia" under the 2nd Amend was ever "called up". Because the Federal Gov't, in actual violation of the Constitution and many State Constitutions, ended up maintaining a "standing Army". Which is the exact thing we fought the British over in the Revolution. Then the need and use of the "militia" simply fell out of need. The U.S Army, or Army Reserves, or U.S. Army National Guard are NOT the "militia". I'm not sure when the last time the "militia" "fell out" here in Mass, probably during the Civil War, or before. Even during WW I there were "National Guard Units" which were "called up" by the President of the U.S. to serve in the US Army. They were not "militia".
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
timf343 wrote:


That right there is the whole issue in a nutshell. If open carry is legal in the state, then the LEO on the street responding to the MWG call needs to use judgment. If I'm walking down the street OC, and LEO observes me and see no suspicion of a crime afoot, then there is no basis to even stop me.

Yeah, but cops don't do that, especially Boston cops, and you know that!! In fact they do the opposite. They will harrass you, assault you, slam u up, frisk you "Terry Stop", and then arrest you. Just cuz THEY want to. There have been cases after cases after cases, describing that the police (Boston police) are trained, taught, and told, that IF they see a "bulge" in a jacket pocket, in a pants pocket, under a jacket, in waist of pants, then that IS "probable cause" that that person is carry an "illegal gun", and you the police then have the right to stop them, detain them, search them, arrest them. So even if it was just a bag of peanuts in your jacket pocket, that "bulge" was "probable cause" that you had an "illegal gun" (whatever that is), and you could be searched.
So IF you are walking down teh streets of Boston carrying an handgun, open, in a holster, on your hip, you are going down Jack!!! Nashua Street Jail, here you come, baby!!! Play some roundball!!! Have "mystery meat" on Thursday night. Kiss your gun goodbye, you will never see it again. Your License to carry, REVOKED!!! The fact that you ARE carry an handgun "open" IS "reasonable suspicion" that you are committing a crime, wit: carrying an "illegal gun", "illegally". Period!! Bye Bye!!
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
mrjam2jab wrote:


Right, exactly. Like here, it's been established that a gun openly carried does NOT constitute PC (probable cause) or RAS (reasonably articulated suspicion), which is necessary for detainment, and I think, even a Terry stop.

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!!!
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
Interesting... I would think that there's got to be more to it than a simple "no public places" statement. That's SO illogical. Now, granted, I know that looking for logic in most legislature can drive someone nuts, but c'mon. I hate the "legalese" language. Why can't legislature be written in plain friggin English? Someone once told me that that is why there are so many lawyers - so they can read the law, interpret it, and explain it to us "normal" folk in a language WE understand. Well, if it was written in plain friggin language to begin with, there's a lesser need for lawyers. I'm sold on that concept, personally. Moving right along...

Keep us posted upon finding anything contrary to the "no public places" clause because that's just absurd.

Well, Welcome to Mass Gun Laws. I have the Booklet right in front of me, and I couldn't find it. Believe me, it is as the guy said. Very difficult to read, undertand, and find. But I wouldn't be surprised if it does say "no public places" in there, that is the convoluted logic of our leftist liberal democrat controlled legislature. MOONBATS!!! To them it is perfectly logical.
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
As for the claim that uninformed citizens would "freak out" upon seeing a citizen who is armed, that's simply not true. Here are links to a couple of videos I made while going about my errands.

One is in a bank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKxYSczw_94

One in a supermarket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMXBaDKUdGg

Two in a home improvement store:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDj0TnKx0UQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeZS2_RA_Q

Feel free to share the links.


The ONLY thing close to a "freak out" that's ever happened to me was when a couple people in a church I attended called the nonemergency # to ask police if OC is legal.

(That happened after the service, after I'd been there close to 90min, & they told police they'd seen me come in, & saw the gun when I came in, but somehow didn't see that it was a gun - even though it's black, the holster is black, & I was wearing a white shirt & tan pants.)

Nobody at the church was upset, scared, screaming, running, nobody called 911, etc. In short, nobody freaked out. Except the police. The city ended up paying a few thousand dollars for their misdeeds. Doesn't solve the problems they created.

If you're interested, here's the phone call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz3KCf2l9QI

Oh? you're a woman? Well try that in Massachusetts and you're going bye bye!! Clink!!!
 

aspenrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Boston, MA
Having lived in MA for some time, and having had both a resident and later non-res Pistol Permit, I can clearly say that it depends where you are as to how much freedom you have with a gun. Western MA--and even Norfolk County--where the Patriots play, are gun friendly. Boston and Middlesex Country are gun paranoid. The State cops, who issue non-res permits, are even handed. I had no problem getting mine from them. Having just got out of the Air Force as an officer and combat aviator, I got my first res in Middlesex County from the Sudbury chief of police--reluctantly. My renewal in Norfolk was "pick it up next tuesday." I OC'd when walking my dog in Norfolk, cops drove by and waved. In Middlesex County, I carried concealed because you would get hassled, but released, if you OC'd. While there is nothing to prohibit OC with a Class A PP, again it depends on where. Deerfield probably couldn't care less; Brookline--forget it.

Brookline??? You'd be brought up before the Politburo!!!! Oh heck!! It is 6 am on Sat and I have to work today, after to be in Brookline by noon!!! Yikes!! I just get too much into this!!!
But you seem quite correct!! But are you talking about Norfolk County or the Town of Norfolk? Foxboro is in Norfolk County? I'll have to check on that. The Sudbury Chief gave u a License, Wow!!! Hasn't he been sued alot?
Ahh, but remember Brookline IS in Norfolk County too!! Believe it or not!!
 

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
I have never heard of nor seen "open carry" of a firearm (handgun or long gun) in Mass. Maybe.. a long gun while hunting out in the woods in rural areas. Even with a Class A License to carry a concealed handgun for personal protection, I don't think you can carry it "open". You'll have to check with ALL current Laws and State Court Decisions, and Local Police and Ordinances.
You can buy/order from the State House Book Store (in Boston), a Yellow Booklet about Gun Laws in Massachusetts. Put together in 2000, I think it was. I have a copy over there somewhere. I don't know it by heart, cuz there is so much b.s. in it, and convoluted logic (for lack of a better word). There are so many contradictions, as well as "typos" in the booklet (intentionally I'm sure). But off hand, I don't recall anything about it being legal to "open carry" a handgun in Mass, even if you have a Class A License. But I could be incorrect. I'd have to read thru the Gun Laws Booklet.
To put it simply, if you do open carry a handgun in Mass. you will get stopped and hassled by the cops. Again, unless you are out in a rural wooded area, or on private large tract of land... I can ask my oldest brother, he is more versed than I. I have an email open to him right now.
Ok, I found the Gun Law Booklet. It was $4.35 when I bought it. Oh , I'm sorry, says "Current as of July 1, 2008" not 2000. I wouldn't even know where to begin to look for it, since most of the booklet and laws are about revocation of license and penalties (fine, imprisonment). Not too much on your "rights" or what they actually "let" you do with the License.

I'm reading about Class A License, I don't see anything that says about "open carry". Oh here is something funny. It says "... unless the applicant:............(v) is an alien....".. HA!!! Some Judge, in Mass, a short while ago, just ruled in favor of 2 Legal Resident Aliens, stating that they cannot be denied their right to apply for and obtain a License to carry a firearm. Eventho, here it specifically says not an alien. Unreal!!

I dunno, there is so much to read. You'll need to get this booklet, or all the laws and read them all carefully. Doesn't it say on your Class A License.? All I see is it says "Ch 140 Sec 131 (a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess, and carry; (i) firearms, ..........., for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) ................."
I don't see where it says anything about "open carry" or "unconcealed" or "concealed". Get the Laws, ask the Chief of Police AND the City Attorney for the town/city you in live, within which issued you your Class A License. Or inquire at the Dept of Public Safety (I think it's called) or the Colonel of the STate Police.. Of course the Chief will tell you what he "thinks" the law is, how he wants it, not what it actually is.

Alot of times it says "under the direct control of such person", i.e. the Class A license holder. Oooo!! here's a section on "Covert Weapons"!!! James Bond stuff, I guess.
But I do believe that you DO NOT need a License to have a "firearm" in your residence or place of business Chapter 269, Sec 10 (a) (1). But... how would you get a gun into your residence or place of business without violating Mass gun laws? If you do not have a License? Cuz, I do believe, ANOTHER Licensed person CANNOT sell, give, loan, transport a gun to you to your residence or business. If they do, they have committed a crime. I do believe.

So this Mass Gun Law Booklet is 65 pages long, typed, 8 1/2 x 11 inches pages. Good Luck!!!

Resident Aliens can not be denied a license due to Fletcher v Haas. Thank Comm2a for pushing that issue. While they did 99% of the work, I was more than happy to inform them of how alienage is a protected class and that lawsuit originally began in 2010. It took a lot of planning and a lot of resources, so again, Comm2a is to thank for that.

You are correct that you do not need a license to possess a gun in your residence unless it's a "large capacity weapon".

Most MA cops do not know that.

As far as open carry, from how some people read (myself included) chapter 140 and 269, it appears that you can open carry on a class A unrestricted license.

I do not recommend doing so unless your CLEO is ok with it because of suitability and in absence of better court rulings on this issue, you are at the mercy of your CLEO.

There was one chief somewhere in western Mass who is ok with open carry, and one member of this forum will open carry, he is ok because when cops in eastern mass call his CLEO to tell them their licensee is open carry, he tells them that it is legal. That chief is in the minority and most chiefs may try to revoke your license.
 
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Makarov

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
227
Location
Dayton, Ohio, USA
MA a police state

I reminder the gentleman who is a police officer, I ask the question; "Why do I want to open carry"? Open carry prevents crime, that’s a fact. It’s my right, it’s not a privilege. A right is not licensed, a privilege is. That is a Supreme Court ruling 1946. By nature, criminals will avoid anyone with an exposed handgun because that person is not the easy target. When a person carries concealed, the robber already has a gun on you or is in the process of pointing the gun at you. I would never want to be in that predicament. From what I see, and I’m originally from Springfield, the culture in MA needs to change to a liberty based philosophy where the PEOPLE, not the SHEEPLE run the state. The police have too much power and influence on the state legislature and the hypocrisy of the state government. This leads to corruption, civil liberty issues, and the citizen’s place in tyranny. The police need to be put in their place on this issue and should be held liable for intimidating the public. The Police in Ohio have been held to the carpet by law and they are getting better addressing open carrying. They have been sued, arrested and they have been exposed by the media. I hope MA will follow the rest of the country soon. Good Luck All!
 
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