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Open Carry in the Detroit Area?

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,174
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here nc
have you noticed mate, there are not any members posting images of human silhouette targets or actually any targets being posted by members on this very public forum site?

Great and oh so very good, now when you are being questioned on the stand for manslaughter after using said 'modified trigger' firearm during your SD incident, please enjoy the conversation with the prosecutor & judge about the benefits of it.

kinda like the conversation you would engage in with the prosecutor as you discuss if you have reloaded your own SD ammo a tad bit 'hotter' for better results...

finally, mate...me chase you...sorry you started a thread regarding OC'g in Detroit, then in your first posting you flatly state you won't OC but will CC; then dance around I am not understanding your rhetoric; then flatly state about MI CPL application issues in Wayne County ~ being going on and everyone knows about it ~ yet profess to have just taken the CPL course; then state on a firearm site you are modifying firearm; then brag about modifying the trigger of your personal SD firearm lighter; and now out of the blue post human silhouette targets bragging about how good you've done?

ya i'm the one who doesn't have a clue...just explained where you have gone wrong!

ps...think it wise to post your precious 45's S/N on a public forum...someone could report it stolen...
 
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color of law

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I now have.

I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying to go to the police station and tell them that I will be carrying openly? If so, for my immediate vicinity, I would have no problem doing that. In fact, when I dropped off my registration slips there, the 2 different cops on 2 different occasions both gave me a hearty congratulations on buying a personal handgun. I'm not of the impression that every Redford Township cop is an anti 2A private gun hater.

If you're not saying that, then please explain where I have gone wrong.
I'm glad you are not putting words in to my mouth. I believe the first and second sentence of the post I pointed you to says: "It is not the piece of paper. It is the message the piece of paper sends, notice." Does that sound like: "Are you saying to go to the police station and tell them that I will be carrying openly?" "Tell them" sounds like a verbal notice. Now do you understand why solus is critiquing your posts?
 

color of law

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For all the new members that have been joining the forum, this is for them.

If you are learning how to handle the open carrying in public, the first order of business is that you are responsible for knowing your state laws. But with that said, when open carrying someone will call the police complaining about your actions, even to the point of lying about your actions. Now, you become the subject of an investigation by the police. Many police will also lie to you for the express purpose of violating your rights; attempting to get you to comply with their unlawful orders. This is a fact of life and is supported by the Supreme Court.

This is why NOTICE is so important. Notice is one of the most important aspects of law. A simple example of this is traffic laws, stop sign ahead, reduce speed ahead, etc.

So, if you are going to be carrying in a certain area on a regular basis then you need to give the local police NOTICE of your lawful intentions. That notice must be in writing and it needs to be directed to the police chief, sheriff and the local authorities such as city council people, township trustees, etc.

When all those people know your intentions then a confrontation with them may not result or if confronted, reminding them of the notice you sent hopefully results in a smoother interaction. And that is a BIG hope.

So, what should go into that notice? Let’s hear your thoughts.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
For all the new members that have been joining the forum, this is for them.

If you are learning how to handle the open carrying in public, the first order of business is that you are responsible for knowing your state laws. But with that said, when open carrying someone will call the police complaining about your actions, even to the point of lying about your actions. Now, you become the subject of an investigation by the police. Many police will also lie to you for the express purpose of violating your rights; attempting to get you to comply with their unlawful orders. This is a fact of life and is supported by the Supreme Court.

This is why NOTICE is so important. Notice is one of the most important aspects of law. A simple example of this is traffic laws, stop sign ahead, reduce speed ahead, etc.

So, if you are going to be carrying in a certain area on a regular basis then you need to give the local police NOTICE of your lawful intentions. That notice must be in writing and it needs to be directed to the police chief, sheriff and the local authorities such as city council people, township trustees, etc.

When all those people know your intentions then a confrontation with them may not result or if confronted, reminding them of the notice you sent hopefully results in a smoother interaction. And that is a BIG hope.

So, what should go into that notice? Let’s hear your thoughts.
Now THIS is helpful. Thank you.
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
have you noticed mate, there are not any members posting images of human silhouette targets or actually any targets being posted by members on this very public forum site?
I actually have limited time on this site and so had not noticed that. I have however noticed plenty of target postings on other sites. Some of them quite large ones. The target is what the range had. All that said, your point is not without merit and is duly noted.

Great and oh so very good, now when you are being uestioed on the stand for manslaughter after using said 'modified trigger' firearm during your SD incident, please enjoy the conversation with the prosecutor & judge about the benefits of it.
I have seen this discussed many times. Yes, that's a possibility, but it's also an argument I believe I could credibly counter. Knowing that actual credibility doesn't necessarily carry a lot of weight before a rabid anti 2A prosecutor, it's also a chance I'm willing to take. I LOVE tinkering with stuff. Half the fun of shooting (I have plenty of experience with rifles and shotguns) is tinkering and getting the result you wanted. Not just with firearms either.

Hundreds of thousands and maybe millions of shooters are on public record online tinkering with their stuff. I would not stand out as a lone weirdo in that regard.

finally, mate...me chase you...sorry you started a thread regarding OC'g in Detroit, then in your first posting you flatly state you won't OC but will CC; then dance around
:) I'll try this again friend. What I said was that I would prefer to carry concealed. However, being that that will not be a legal possibility for at least a while due to the Wayne county clerk's shenanigans, which are well known, I am left with open carrying as my only legal option for the foreseeable future

With these two points in mind, I THEN said that IF IF IF open carrying will bring me a certain type and level of harassment, THEN I will not open carry. Please sir. I did not come here looking for problems with anybody. Do you not see the point in what I just said?

issues in Wayne County ~ being going on and everyone knows about it ~ yet profess to have just taken the CPL course;
Yes, because the CPL cert is good for 5 years in Michigan, so getting one now will buy me 5 years time to maybe get my county clerk appointment and my CPL. You probably didn't know that, which is fine, but I did.
then brag about modifying the trigger of your personal SD firearm lighter; and now out of the blue post human silhouette targets bragging about how good you've done?
Sir, you denigrated me with the clear implication that I am an irresponsible noob trying to pass himself off as a gunsmith. I made no such claim and you had to go to a different site to bring up my trigger mods on this one.

I posted my pics to demonstrate that while certainly no gunsmith, I have full confidence in my ability to understand and do certain work to the pistols that I own. I made that point. I did the work and it works great.

I have a friend who has one that is having FTF issues. I know I can fix that. Or at least do all the basic work to the parts that are probably causing it. How is that outrageous?

ps...think it wise to post your precious 45's S/N on a public forum...someone could report it stolen...
Precious 45? (I have a 9 too) Why the attitude? All I did was come here asking for people's experiences in my area.

I have the receipts, the state registrations and both are registered with S&W in my name. Nobody can report them stolen. Well, they can, but it won't go anywhere.

I never like making enemies. You have been on me for everything except the question I asked since my first post. Maybe we can start over. I'm willing to try. How bout you? :)
 
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Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
So, what should go into that notice? Let’s hear your thoughts.
Well, off the top of my head, I would say a respectful and levelheaded statement of my intention to lawfully carry a lawfully obtained and registered firearm openly in their jurisdiction. I would probably include copies of my receipts and registration forms (though they have their copies of the latter already) along with direct citations of Michigan compiled law from the state website which would be applicable to any and all possible scenarios that may arise on the street.

I would probably keep a copy of what I submitted to them on the visor in my vehicle too.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Location
here nc
I actually have limited time on this site...

snippp...
snipppp....
Quoting your post # 10:
"I have spent the last couple months researching everything I could find, including yes, the threads on this site."

This Greg is the inconsistencies you are in denial about.

Further, greg...while you're extremely naive & blasé about the points being brought up regarding publicly stating you modified your firearm's trigger; posting a photo of your firearm's s/n; ad nauseam, all the while you continue state "you're interested in learning/understanding situational issue" then blurt out "would't happen to me..."!

Finally, you have failed to grasp, in MI you may not OC/CC a firearm in your vehicle w/o a CPL. Firearm must be unloaded and kept in the trunk, per MI 750.227(2).

so greg...you're OC/CCg as you leave a establishment while OCg, arrive at your vehicle, pull it out of the holster, unload the firearm, put in your locked box in the trunk. The drive to another location, open the trunk,,unlock your box, handle the firearm while loading it as well as putting it into your OC holster on your hip.

now while you're engaged in your circus act, a good Detroit citizen sees you and thinks your a bad guy, or their a bloomie and cries, panics, or otherwise causes the 911 operator to issue a swat responce to you and while innocent of wrong doing...your wounded/killed by a zealous LE who misread your body language!

Greg...me an enemy...please...get over it & pull your head out of your derrière and stop and listen & take the advice offered as scat happens as the newspeek/social media says!
 

Tiribulus

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
Quoting your post # 10:
"I have spent the last couple months researching everything I could find, including yes, the threads on this site."

This Greg is the inconsistencies you are in denial about.

Further, greg...while you're extremely naive & blasé about the points being brought up regarding publicly stating you modified your firearm's trigger; posting a photo of your firearm's s/n; ad nauseam, all the while you continue state "you're interested in learning/understanding situational issue" then blurt out "would't happen to me..."!

Finally, you have failed to grasp, in MI you may not OC/CC a firearm in your vehicle w/o a CPL. Firearm must be unloaded and kept in the trunk, per MI 750.227(2).

so greg...you're OC/CCg as you leave a establishment while OCg, arrive at your vehicle, pull it out of the holster, unload the firearm, put in your locked box in the trunk. The drive to another location, open the trunk,,unlock your box, handle the firearm while loading it as well as putting it into your OC holster on your hip.

now while you're engaged in your circus act, a good Detroit citizen sees you and thinks your a bad guy, or their a bloomie and cries, panics, or otherwise causes the 911 operator to issue a swat responce to you and while innocent of wrong doing...your wounded/killed by a zealous LE who misread your body language!

Greg...me an enemy...please...get over it & pull your head out of your derrière and stop and listen & take the advice offered as scat happens as the newspeek/social media says!
What is it with you man? Do you hate Christians or something? I have limited time on this site EXCEPT for the specific topic I started this thread to find out about. This is clearly spelled out in the post you cite.

The serial number on the M&Ps is on the right side. Only the left side is showing in my pic. Unless you REALLY went outta your way to dig up a pic on another site or something again. Which pic, if it exists, I don't specifically recall.

Look I'm done wasting my time with you. If you are an officer of this site and don't want me here, just say so. I really don't care. It's a big internet and I have plenty to do. :)


+
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,348
Location
northern wis
@solus For some reason my presence here offends you.
There is context to every one of my statements you quote. You have gone out of your way to chase me down and attempt to discredit me when all I did was come here looking for help. I have no control over that.

Suffice it to say, I am very good with mechanics and working with my hands. Always have been. I never claimed to be a gunsmith, but I did a complete trigger job on my M&P 45 full size and it came out perfectly.
View attachment 13833

Super smooth now, and a bit lighter with the MCarbo kit. I went back to the stock striker spring because the one from MCarbo made the pull too light for me.

This is 7 yards, 50 rounds, 3 round drills. I'm proud of that for only having my own handgun for a few months and you're not gonna take it away from me :)
View attachment 13834
At 7 yards explains a lot.
 

BB62

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Messages
4,041
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Please assume I am fully legal and know ALL the MCL having to do with OC in Michigan.

I am in fact fully legal and I am well versed in all the applicable law.

What I'm looking for is what people who actually do OC, or know people personally who OC in and around the Detroit area are experiencing in real life.

Forget about the law and what our rights are according to it please. That won't stop the nanny state do gooders from calling the police on the scary guy with the scary gun on his hip.

I would prefer CC overall, but from the looks of it I'll probably be in a nursing home before I get an appointment with the county clerk.

Life is tough and complicated already. I have no time or money to go back and forth to court trying to deal with getting my gun back and clearing myself if some bed wetting leftist calls the police on me and they arrest me and or confiscate my firearm. Even if wrongly and I'm ultimately exonerated in the end.

I won't open carry if there is a decent chance this will happen.

Thanks
I understand your desire to carry, preferably concealed, and your hesitancy to open carry without an assessment of risks (in dollars and time) that may be forthcoming should you choose to do so.

That said, no one here can predict those things with assurance - we can only offer suggestions as to how to minimize your exposure.

If you're still hanging around, let your presence be known and maybe we can continue this discussion.
 

Hevymetal

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Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
261
Location
Clinton Twp
I've OCed in Detroit for years. Other then people seeing me, then crossing the street to avoid me, never had an issue in Detroit. The only time a DPD officer showed up while I was carrying he asked "Is that your gun?", "Yes it is", Do you have a permit for carrying that gun?", "Don't need a permit to OC." "Okay then, have a nice day." Then he left. Just be assertive and know the laws. You should have little to no problems.
 

color of law

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I've OCed in Detroit for years. Other then people seeing me, then crossing the street to avoid me, never had an issue in Detroit. The only time a DPD officer showed up while I was carrying he asked "Is that your gun?", "Yes it is", Do you have a permit for carrying that gun?", "Don't need a permit to OC." "Okay then, have a nice day." Then he left. Just be assertive and know the laws. You should have little to no problems.
Then your thoughts to below thread.
 

Hevymetal

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Jan 22, 2012
Messages
261
Location
Clinton Twp
Then your thoughts to below thread.

OCing an unregistered firearm brings more scrutiny from whichever law enforcement agency you have contact with. Personally I would not OC an unregistered firearm. I would happily CC one. Most of the interactions I have had with the law are positive, however I have had several agents that were openly hostile about the fact I was OCing and new more about the laws then they did. Quote MCL 123.1102 a few times to an officer and you'll see what i mean.

While I do believe it is a perfectly fine exemption to get the AZ non-resident CPL and avoid registration. I have neither the time nor the money currently to defend that standpoint in a court and will error on the side of caution while OCing. That being said it boils down to personal choice. If you have the ability to defend yourself against bogus charges that 'Im sure they would come up with. Then by all means go for it.
 

solus

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here nc
OCing an unregistered firearm brings more scrutiny from whichever law enforcement agency you have contact with. Personally I would not OC an unregistered firearm. I would happily CC one. Most of the interactions I have had with the law are positive, however I have had several agents that were openly hostile about the fact I was OCing and new more about the laws then they did. Quote MCL 123.1102 a few times to an officer and you'll see what i mean.

While I do believe it is a perfectly fine exemption to get the AZ non-resident CPL and avoid registration. I have neither the time nor the money currently to defend that standpoint in a court and will error on the side of caution while OCing. That being said it boils down to personal choice. If you have the ability to defend yourself against bogus charges that 'Im sure they would come up with. Then by all means go for it.
The fact the "agents" are openly hostile, who cares, as you are OC'g doesn't mean you're breaking any MI statutory mandates and unless they provide RAS ~ then walk away as citizens are under no obligation to engage in courteous chit chat w/LEs as they evaluate your status.
 

Tiribulus

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Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
I understand your desire to carry, preferably concealed, and your hesitancy to open carry without an assessment of risks (in dollars and time) that may be forthcoming should you choose to do so.

That said, no one here can predict those things with assurance - we can only offer suggestions as to how to minimize your exposure.

If you're still hanging around, let your presence be known and maybe we can continue this discussion.
Thank you sir.

I have been much further enlightened since my last visit here and actually popped in to say so. I now understand the hostility I was receiving for simply asking an honest question.

I understand much better now that this site is not just about open carry generally, but about the cause of publicly normalizing open carry. A thing with which I VERY much concur. I was being viewed (and maybe still will be) as an impediment to that mission by my apparently weak commitment to OC and desire to carry concealed. I certainly intended no offense or harm.

I love this country and am grateful to God for having been born here, but the honest fact of the matter is that I have higher commitments even than to this country and the 2nd amendment. The security I care about most has nothing to do with this or any other earthly nation.

I'm not afraid of jail and I'm not afraid to die, but I do have priorities and responsibilities while I'm here that preclude my being permanently crippled financially and or going to jail over an avoidable gun charge.

All that said, I will probably still open carry at least some of the time even though my CPL is literally in the mail. Long true story, but I got my appointment with the Wayne County Clerk and I called down there and actually got a very nice lady on the phone who told me I was approved and it was mailed out. I had the Redford Police run me and they told me that I am CPL holder in the MSP database.

However, we ARE NOT GETTING OUR MAIL

All I was looking for when I came here was some people's experiences with open carry where I live. :)
 
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Tiribulus

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Messages
42
The fact the "agents" are openly hostile, who cares, as you are OC'g doesn't mean you're breaking any MI statutory mandates and unless they provide RAS ~ then walk away as citizens are under no obligation to engage in courteous chit chat w/LEs as they evaluate your status.
The last thing I came back here for was more controversy with you my friend. Keeping that in mind, I have watched alot of open carry walk youtube videos and I really believe that most of these guys are shooting themselves in the foot (pun?) by the way they treat the police. This NOT aimed at you because I have no idea if you even participate in 2A walks.

I must admit that your quoted comment above did remind me of that though.

That's something I would be very interested in talking about. How to best acclimate the police and private citizens to the presence of firearms held by other peacable law abiding citizens.
 

color of law

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The last thing I came back here for was more controversy with you my friend. Keeping that in mind, I have watched alot of open carry walk youtube videos and I really believe that most of these guys are shooting themselves in the foot (pun?) by the way they treat the police. This NOT aimed at you because I have no idea if you even participate in 2A walks.

I must admit that your quoted comment above did remind me of that though.

That's something I would be very interested in talking about. How to best acclimate the police and private citizens to the presence of firearms held by other peacable law abiding citizens.
Please post these hostile police open carry walks. I would like to see them because I have been involved in many open carry walks in which the police were highly supportive.

Please supply links/youtube showing all this hostility.
 

Tiribulus

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Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
42
Please post these hostile police open carry walks. I would like to see them because I have been involved in many open carry walks in which the police were highly supportive.

Please supply links/youtube showing all this hostility.
I will do that as soon as I get a chance. In the meantime, could you please quote the part of my comment in which I used the word "hostility?"

What I said was "the way they treat the police"?

Some could be described as hostile. Most could be rightly described by any objective observer as "dismissive" disrespectful" and "adversarial."

If that's not you, then it's not.

Let me copy and paste this from another forum for now. I'll find the videos we were talking about. Detroit area videos actually in that case.
======================================

I had actually seen many of those. Man is there ever alot going on here.

Some points:

If I could push a button and have my way, no citizen or LEO would be alarmed by the sight of open carry. I am as pro 2A as anybody you will ever meet. I am for constitutional carry in all 50 states.

I don't think a confrontational, adversarial attitude with the police gets us anywhere. Even if we're right. What matters is the perception. Shouldn't we want to be known as the most pro police, cooperative and least problematic of anybody a cop will run into today? Being arrogant and pugnacious, or even appearing to be, for the sake of the letter of the law plays into the stereotypes of "gun people" being hotheaded rebels looking for a fight.

It seems to me that being fully armed with ready citations of the law while at the same time being as cooperative as reasonably possible is more productive. I would even explain it that way.
"Yes sir, but it's important that you understand, that you demanding my ID without probable cause is a violation of my constitutional rights. I am cooperating for the sake of demonstrating to what lengths I'm willing to go in order to show other law abiding citizens, including yourself, that there is nothing to fear, and much to gain from their fellow law abiding citizens keeping and bearing arms. (in a nuthshell)"

Telling the police to basically *** off and walk away is not constructive. Even if legally right. It's what the gun grabbers want us to do.

i understood what the one black Detroit cop was saying:

"We have concerned citizens calling in and reporting a group of folks walking around looking like they're ready to invade Hart Plaza and I get sent out on the call. I find them and they act like it's the most outrageous thing in the world to wonder who they are and to question them about their intentions with all these weapons. They tell me to get lost and go on their way. What am I to make of that? (paraphrase)"

I agree. What IS he to make of that? Again, it doesn't matter how right it may be. It's highly unusual to say the very least and APPEARS threatening, even if it's not. I say being fully informed and yet as polite and cooperative as possible goes a lot further in making the point over time. If the police have 20 consecutive encounters with 2A people that leave them feeling like they've just been talking to friends who appreciate what they do and are on their side for law and order, I think that might actually change things.

Telling them what tyrannical morons they are for not knowing the law, figuratively flipping them off and turning around and walking away puts them in the wrong frame of mind if we expect them to eventually support us.

I've had rifles and shotguns for decades. Personal handgun ownership is new to me. I want to do it right. I have been thinking very deeply about all this.
 
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