• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry Making One a "Target" for Getting Mugged

Don Barnett

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
451
Location
, ,
Hi, I used to be a regular poster but kind of dropped out.

I live in Northern Virginia and carry most every place I go and open carry often. My wife, although quite a Pro-Second Amendment person, does not think Open Carry is a good idea because she thinks it will make one a "target" for someone bent on malfeasence. She thinks the gun, somehow, will cause a dirtbag to come after me first. I believe quite the opposite; that it will cause someone to avoid me because I am obviously armed.

I Open Carry for several reasons: 1st - I like larger handguns and it is hard to conceal when the weather is warm; 2nd - I think that carrying open will make it LESS likely that I will get mugged; and 3rd - of course, it is kind of a "political statement" that I value the 2nd Amendment and will not give up that right. Both of us are proud Catholic Americans and both of us are unashamed to stand up for Religious Liberty and Catholic Doctrine; I am also unashamed to stand up for the 2nd Amendment.

Once she gets something in her mind it is hard to convince her otherwise, but does anyone have any statistics that will support my side?

Thanks...Don
 

DQ_1812

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
2
Location
Gallatin, TN
Target? Not sure... but not a criminal!

I haven't yet found statistics on the relationship between Open Carry and crime prevention or propulsion, but I have found definitive study on public and professional perception regarding those who carry a handgun openly. Most notably, the 2006 FBI study "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers" by Anthony Pinizzotto revealed that criminals carefully conceal their firearms, and they eschew the use of holsters. In other words, those who openly subject themselves to the public scrutiny and misconception are likely, and statistically proven to not be criminals or have criminal intentions in mind when carrying a weapon.
Unfortunately, I now live in Tennessee where I have to apply for a permit to exercise my natural born right of self preservation, and I have yet to follow the herd into that realm. However, I used to live Kentucky where I could open carry as I please and I did apply for and receive a concealed carry permit. I often Open Carried and on one particular occasion I was exiting my vehicle to fill my tank at the pumps of a local gas station when I noticed a man putting on a second-chance vest in his car (light military armor that gives wearer a "second chance" if they happen to encounter shrapnel; not bulletproof). This struck me as odd and although I hadn't originally thought to go inside (paying at the pump) I started filling my tank and cautiously walked towards the store entrance. As I was walking up, my Ruger P90 .45 was on my right hip, clearly visible to the gentleman with the vest who was also walking to the front door from my right. I made eye contact with him, watched him glance down at my pistol and immediately saw his stride and facial expressions change. He continued in the store and went directly to the bathroom; I stayed out in the aisles waiting for him to exit the bathroom. After 2 minutes passed, I saw him Turkey peak out of the bathroom and this time my Military bearing was in full swing. I was fully confident about what I had to do next if the situation were to escalate, and I was prepared. He then walked out in full view, and immediately saw me next to the chip racks: deer in the headlights look! His color changed to a pale-white and I made an ever-so-slight head gesture to the left, signifying that he could leave unharmed, if he'd just leave. He didn't pick up anything for purchase. He didn't look around. He hurriedly walked out of the store, jumped in his car and left the store.

Did I divert a potential threat? Did I stop a robbery? I don't know and there will never be a statistic on that because we never let it play out. But I am confident that the mere presence of not only my weapon, but also of my confidence to use it stopped that man from doing something stupid. I'll never know if he had a gun, but I know what a second chance vest is from my time as a Marine Corps Tank Crewman, and that was unmistakable. Since that day, I have carried my Pistol with me everywhere I go and I pray that I get a chance to use it in exactly that same manner; as a preventative device designed to thwart evil doings. Statistically, I would say that there are a larger number of incidents like mine unreported v. reported. So if your wife is looking for evidence, tell her to read my story.

Thanks,

David
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Wearing a nice watch makes you a target
Driving a nice car makes you a target
Living in a nice house makes you a target
Wearing nice/sexy clothes makes you a target
Walking in the wrong neighborhood makes you a target
Burying your head in a smartphone makes you a target
Carrying a defensive firearm openly makes you a target.
...
Now, of all the above things that makes you a target, which one has the greatest chance of also preventing becoming one?

It's hard to get "didn't happen" statistics. How do you determine how many burglaries were prevented by having "This property protected by Acme Alarm Co." signs, or how many bank robberies were prevented by stationing an armed guard prominently on the premises?
 
Last edited:

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
It's been my experience that the sight of an openly-carried firearm acts very well as a cockroach repellent; the two-legged variety, anyway.

Do keep in mind that a reasonable level of situational awareness is part and parcel of that deterrent factor. If you are walking along with your head up and on a swivel, your shoulders back (I know you Jarheads know what I'm talking about!!), and walking like you know where you're going and what is going on around you, the cockroaches are going to notice that and notice the weapon.

On the other hand, if you are shuffling along with your head down or with a cell phone to your ear, you may very well be making yourself a target.

Sorry, Marines, but this is one retired doggie who will tease you unmercifully. But, like I used to tell my Marine students, "I don't tease or make jokes about those I do not highly respect."
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Explain to her that EVERYTHING in life comes with a risk. You can be super dramatic and say that simply getting out of bed could get you killed in a multitude of ways, or you could go simple and point out how driving vs riding a bike increases your chances of being in a vehicular crash. Then point to the fact that by concealing you look like any other potential victim and could be targeted because of that, vs how OCing shows that you have the ability to fight back and potentially kill them. From there explain how criminals are opportunistic and that 60% admitted to looking somewhere else if they knew their target was armed (for a cite it's from gunfacts.info and they have cites for everything they list). From there state how if 60% are willing to admit that, how many more aren't willing to admit that due to being cocky/arrogant/bravado towards the interviewer? Finally I would end with admitting yes you "could" be targeted because of the gun, but it simply doesn't happen (the news has field days when there's even an attempt at it) and that you feel the deterrence you gain from OCing outweighs the risk of being targeted for a crime as the other option still makes you a potential target for crime; moreso given that you look like any other unarmed person.

At least this was how I explained it to my parents. While they are still nervous about it (they CC), they respect my choice and are glad that I actually did research on it and fully understand why I do it. It just isn't for them as they don't want the potential attention it can bring.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
The myth of the OCer being targeted because of their visible handgun - either as the first one to be shot in a robbery, or to have the handgun taken away from them - is just that. There have been no verifiable reports of such things happening. The closest we came was a) the couple in NoVa that were attacked while out walking and b) the guy in Richmond who wound up getting shot with his own gun. IIRC the NoVa incident was debunked because they were not targeted because of the gun, and the Richmond incident was debunked based on the fact that the victim drew and then lost control of (dropped) his gun and the BG picked it up and shot him with it.

There is still a reward being offered for the first verifiable incident. Should your wife be able to claim it she would be able to do some serious shopping. Suggest she try for it.

stay safe.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
OC is a deterent to a mugger or someone else that would do you harm. I know it has worked that way for me for the last 42+ years anyway. When I leave the house I am packing, and unless it is so cold I must wear a heavy coat, my carry is visible.

In 42 years I have had one case where this person was screaming at the top of his lungs how he was going to pound me to a pulp (I have no idea why, but that is what he was yelling)...until he saw that I was armed. I just turned a bit so he could see it, carry never left it's holster, but he shut up, turned around and left as quickly as he had appeared. There were other instances where I am sure my carry stopped a problem before it became a problem...but nothing so starkly obvious as the above instance.

I have no desire to need to use my carry, I just want to be left alone...and at least for me...OC has worked.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
This is an old one and has been brought up numerous times. Get ready for some bad news.

Your feeling of joy at your "discovery" is about to be followed by the crushing feeling of having your hopes dashed on the rocks of reality, kinda like the guy who thought he struck gold finding out that it is iron pyrite.

Note that I avoided using the word "fool" as in "fool's gold." Oops, I just used the word twice.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/

The OP can start here ... I have only searched for unintentional firearms injuries and fatalities .


So it is going to depend on what the OP is trying to prove.


From:
A population based study of unintentional firearm
fatalities by D Cherry, C Runyan, J Butts
Injury Prevention 2001;7:62–65

Table 1 Circumstances* of unintentional firearm
fatalities: North Carolina, 1990–94 (n=187)
Circumstance category (mutually exclusive) No (%)
“Playing”, “fooling around” 65 (35.0)
Cleaning, repairing, loading, unloading 23 (12.0)
“Went off” 23 (12.0)
Hunting (in the field) 18 (10.0)
Returning to, removing from storage 13 (7.0)
Dropped 9 (5.0)
Demonstrating, transferring 9 (5.0)
Other 7 (3.5)
Defective gun, ammunition 5 (3.0)
Target shooting, firing range 4 (2.0)
Tripping, falling 3 (1.5)
Carrying on person 3 (1.5)
Child picking up gun (<4 years old) 2 (1.0)
Stated unknown/unspecified 2 (1.0)
Argument, fight 1 (0.5)
Total 187 (100)
*Abstracted from case files of all 187 fatalities that occurred
 

NoTolerance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
292
Location
Milwaukee, WI
This is an old one and has been brought up numerous times. Get ready for some bad news.

Your feeling of joy at your "discovery" is about to be followed by the crushing feeling of having your hopes dashed on the rocks of reality, kinda like the guy who thought he struck gold finding out that it is iron pyrite.

Note that I avoided using the word "fool" as in "fool's gold." Oops, I just used the word twice.

Well can I at least get a candy bar or something? Man, what a bust!
 

NoTolerance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
292
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Talk to your fellow Wisconsonites. They know the details of this one far better than I. Maybe one will buy you a beer and tell you the tale.

Not much to tell, is there? One guy in a bad neighborhood, who had been harassed repeatedly in the past, didn't have enough situational awareness and/or sense to realize that the act of carrying a gun doesn't automatically ward off all evil? One guy out of how many thousands? One time?

Doesn't really merit discussion, unless one chooses to use this as an object lesson in keeping one's eyes open at all times.

By the way, I thought it would have been more clear in my original response that I was replying more tongue in cheek to skid's challenge than actually trying to be serious or dissuade anyone from open carrying.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
With a visible firearm, I'm an overweight, middle-age white guy with the visible means to resist.
Without a visible firearm, I'm an overweight, middle-age white guy with rugged good looks.

I'd rather not depend on my good looks to avoid trouble.
 
Last edited:

Packer fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
399
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, United States
As said before:

It's hard to show what you have prevented if you don't know you have prevented it.

OC isn't a magic forcefield that will protect one from all harm but it helps.

I do know through my wife's experiences that OC is a very big deterrent. Now, in Arkansas where we live she can not OC but whenever she leaves the state she straps up and most of the time is OCing. Men reat her with great respect when they notice her visible firearm. She has had a drunk man harass her and the mere sight and mentioning of the firearm deterred him. My wife gets more stares and glares then I do and people give her a wider berth will OCing.

If she doesn't feel comfortable at first have her OC at home.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Last edited:

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Not much to tell, is there? One guy in a bad neighborhood, who had been harassed repeatedly in the past, didn't have enough situational awareness and/or sense to realize that the act of carrying a gun doesn't automatically ward off all evil? One guy out of how many thousands? One time?

Doesn't really merit discussion, unless one chooses to use this as an object lesson in keeping one's eyes open at all times.

By the way, I thought it would have been more clear in my original response that I was replying more tongue in cheek to skid's challenge than actually trying to be serious or dissuade anyone from open carrying.

If this is the same case I think it is then the vun wasn't stolen. The guy filed a false police report and the police were pressing charges. Someone from this board (I think it was Dreamer) had actually contacted the PD and asked for follow-up info and that was how we found out the whole thing was false.
 
Top