REDFIVE48
Regular Member
Unfortunately the courts are supporting this behavior, guess those judges that nobody pays attention to on the ballot actually do matter
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OT: question about legality of "license check" in NC
- Thread starter cabarrus
- Start date
Unfortunately the courts are supporting this behavior, guess those judges that nobody pays attention to on the ballot actually do matter
Spearhead
Regular Member
Yeah, right.
Three times I have been thru the checkpoint, one officer at my drivers side window asks for my DL while the other 2 or 3 have their eyeballs all in the inside of my car, shining their flashlights, checking my tags to see if they are expired, etc. They are always very polite, though.
FISHING EXPEDITION
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chiefjason
Regular Member
FYI for anyone that cares. This DOES NOT apply to commercial vehicles. They can pull you over for any reason they wish. The same trooper in Charlotte has pulled me twice. Once I got, "Those trailers are usually over weight, can I see your scale ticket." This last time was even better, "Just letting you know that you've done nothing wrong, I pulled you over to do a routine inspection." An hour later I was on my way! Sheesh. You 4 wheelers have it made, lol.
BTW, I can't stand the DL checks. They seem to come in bunches around here. In the last 2 years I've probably been through about 10-12 of them. They really like a couple of spots on my normal routes to work or my parents house.
NoGlock4U
Regular Member
Like I posted earlier, if you go through one with something you shouldn't have, then that's your own fault.
But since we're all law abiding citizens here and if you guys got nothing to hide, then why complain about a license check point?
JamesCanby
Activist Member
How many times have we heard, "If you've got nothing to hide..." then you won't mind if we search (you, your car, your house, etc. )
The point is, if they have no RAS or PC, then they are not ENTITLED to search you, your car, your house or anything else. When one gives up one's right to be left alone, then all of our rights erode just a little bit more.
moonie
Regular Member
Nobody said they were doing anything wrong, it is more a desire for law enforcement to follow the law and respect our freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.
As Ben Franklin said (paraphrased I know):
People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.
sultan62
Regular Member
I hope you're joking here. This mindset indicates a willing sacrifice of liberty. Let me demonstrate:
If you have nothing to hide, then why not let them search your car?
If you have nothing to hide, then why not let them search your house?
If you have nothing to hide, then why hire a lawyer if you're suspected to have committed a crime?
Would you allow the police to search your car or home without a warrant? Would you answer any and all questions they had, with no legal advice about a crime which they suspect you committed?
NoGlock4U
Regular Member
Okay, let me rephrase..... Why are we complaining about check points?
Honestly, I'm glad they're out there for what ever reasons that the law allows them to have check points. I wouldn't be too happy if I found out some stupid drunk or an idiot without a license kills a friend or family member.
As far as a "search", you can always say "No".
Honestly, I'm glad they're out there for what ever reasons that the law allows them to have check points. I wouldn't be too happy if I found out some stupid drunk or an idiot without a license kills a friend or family member.
As far as a "search", you can always say "No".
sultan62
Regular Member
You really see nothing wrong with police asking for your papers when you have done nothing wrong, and even to their observance, you appear to have done nothing wrong?
I'll keep my liberty, feel free to go for the security.
cabarrus
Regular Member
I was figuratively 'up in arms' about going through the license checkpoint the other day... it really annoyed me, which I why I posted this thread to begin with. It was my first time experiencing one, in NC or anywhere for that matter. It appears to me now that it was operated in a way to keep it "legal", if not necessarily within the bounds of my interpretation of the 4th amendment. It definitely felt like a "show your papers" moment to me...
Thanks for the feedback.
NoGlock4U
Regular Member
I see where you're coming from but I don't think that a "license check point" and the police checking for license at a check point has anything to do with an unreasonable search.
You could always turn around the next time you find a check point
JamesCanby
Activist Member
I see where you're coming from but I don't think that a "license check point" and the police checking for license at a check point has anything to do with an unreasonable search.
You could always turn around the next time you find a check point
Oh, yes. Please do try that for us and let us know how THAT works out for you....
.275Rigby
Regular Member
What is the problem?
If your question has to do with the legitimacy of stopping you in the first place (the mere implementation of a checkpoint) refer to the earlier post with the URL attached discussing the conditions for an upheld-as-constitutional checkpoint stop. Has to be programatic, non-discriminatory, for a valid purpose, etc.
If your question has to do with showing your license which contains more information than is required to "identify yourself," you're engaging in the exercise of a government authorized privilege (operating your vehicle on the public road), so yeah, you're required to show that you have the permit to do that.
The folks who seem to be saying "the government shouldn't be able to make me do anything I don't want to do" are correct in a way: Nobody forces you to operate your motor vehicle on the public road, or agree to abide by the rules that go along with exercising that privilege. Don't agree to show the police a card with your home address on it? Don't drive.
If your question has to do with the legitimacy of stopping you in the first place (the mere implementation of a checkpoint) refer to the earlier post with the URL attached discussing the conditions for an upheld-as-constitutional checkpoint stop. Has to be programatic, non-discriminatory, for a valid purpose, etc.
If your question has to do with showing your license which contains more information than is required to "identify yourself," you're engaging in the exercise of a government authorized privilege (operating your vehicle on the public road), so yeah, you're required to show that you have the permit to do that.
The folks who seem to be saying "the government shouldn't be able to make me do anything I don't want to do" are correct in a way: Nobody forces you to operate your motor vehicle on the public road, or agree to abide by the rules that go along with exercising that privilege. Don't agree to show the police a card with your home address on it? Don't drive.
elixin77
Regular Member
Several members are complaining about this because the cops more than likely have no reason at all to be there. This takes away time from innocent people, all so the police can look like their doing something productive, which isn't productive at all (unless you take into consideration the income boost from court costs, which is probably all the checkpoint was about).
What other reasons do you have, other then to potentially stop someone from driving drunk?
I'll also prefer to keep my liberty, and hate giving it up just so other sheeple feel more 'comfortable' for the next 10 minutes.
as a side note, someone brought up a very similar topic of this going on down in northish GA: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=161587
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JoeSparky
Centurion
Give your OWN rights away if you wish, BUT HOW DARE YOU PROPOSE GIVING AWAY MINE! We live in a Country of laws--- laws that restrict Government to enhance OUR freedom. And also laws that GUIDE society. ANY Governmental agency or sheep that tells me "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is going to hear one response from me and one response only..... SHOW MY YOUR WARRANT!
JoeSparky
Centurion
A CHECK POINT IS A SEARCH. Described just a few posts ago as an officer on one side asking for DL and 2 or 3 on the other side shining flashlights in to see anything exposed... ALL WITHOUT EVEN A HINT OF RAS that I or any one else has just committed a crime, is committing a crime, or about to commit a crime!
sultan62
Regular Member
First, no license should be required to travel. As it is the most common form of travel, and we undoubtedly have the right to travel unrestricted, it should have become a right, as opposed to a licensed privilege, long ago.
Furthermore, the fact that a court or courts have determined a few ways to sidestep the intent of the law does not affect the fact that I should not have to identify myself in any way without cause.
If an officer walked up to you on the street and asked you for ID, what would you do?
Furthermore, the fact that a court or courts have determined a few ways to sidestep the intent of the law does not affect the fact that I should not have to identify myself in any way without cause.
If an officer walked up to you on the street and asked you for ID, what would you do?
chiefjason
Regular Member
Regardless of whether you feel that driving should be a privilege or a right, there is also another issue. Citizens should be left alone unless they have broken a law and the police are responding to that. Many other states get along just fine without stopping drivers for no reason.
Thankfully, I have yet to have a bad experience with a DL checkpoint. But I still don't like them. And others have definitely had some bad experiences with them. There are horror stories out there.
Thankfully, I have yet to have a bad experience with a DL checkpoint. But I still don't like them. And others have definitely had some bad experiences with them. There are horror stories out there.
NoGlock4U
Regular Member
I have to argue that I don't believe that a check point is a "search". Correct me if I'm reading it wrong but plain view during a lawful observation isn't a search according to the Constitution.
It's been a few months since the discussion last appeared, but I'm pretty sure there's no requirement to show your CHP if you are not carrying, nor if you are carrying openly. I could be wrong, but I believe the final verdict here was that disclosure of your CHP was only required if you were carrying concealed.