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davidmcbeth

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Many old folks think that only the gov't should have guns ... 'cause they re scared. But what's to be scared of? You are already close to death's door, why worry?

The ancient Egyptians median life was 40 .. anything over that is just gravy IMO.
 

since9

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Many old folks...

What's your definition of "old?"

You are already close to death's door...

That varies greatly from person to person. I ran an outdoor adventure group for the first three years into my retirement. My oldest hiker, who made it up the 13-mile, 7,000+ vertical from 6,500 to 14,15 feet top of Pikes Peak, was 78. Hardly "close to death's door," wouldn't you say?

The ancient Egyptians median life was 40 .. anything over that is just gravy IMO.

All "median age" figures include infant mortality, which greatly skews the results. The correct approach is to find the median age. That age more accurately reflects how old people can expect to life if they survive childhood. That age has actually been nearly constant throughout the last 2,000 years, as this article clearly explains. It even uses your Egyptian example as evidence of the myth:

An article on Egyptian pyramid builders in the November 2001 issue of "National Geographic" noted, "Despite the availability of medical care the workers' lives were short. On average a man lived 40 to 45 years, a woman 30 to 35."

It continues:

Again, the high infant mortality rate skews the "life expectancy" dramatically downward. If a couple has two children and one of them dies in childbirth while the other lives to be 90, stating that on average the couple's children lived to be 45 is statistically accurate but meaningless.

And finally, it reveals the average age we've enjoyed for the last 2,000 years:

When Socrates died at the age of 70 around 399 B.C., he did not die of old age but instead by execution. It is ironic that ancient Greeks lived into their 70s and older, while more than 2,000 years later modern Americans aren't living much longer.

When using statistics, it is supremely important to know the difference between terms like "mean" and "median," as well as how one is appropriate to use in some circumstances, but not others, and vice-versa. Without such knowledge, comments like, "The ancient Egyptians median life was 40" are worse than meaningless. They're very misleading.

Here's an outstanding graph which shows life expectancy based on having reached certain milestone ages (birth, 5, 20, 40, and 60). As you can clearly see, once you reach age 60, there's been very little change in the ultimate age since 1850, rising only a few years from about 73 to about 79. Furthermore, as the note says, "The greatest change in the overall life expectancy of American man since 1850 resulted from an increasing liklihood that they would reach the age of 5."

Life Expectancy Graph.jpg

Never use the arithmetic mean when median is a more appropriate measure of central tendency.

Finally, here's a good article contrasting the difference between Lifespan (independent of whatever age you might be) and Life Expectancy (dependent on your age).
 
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solus

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do not confuse chronical time span with an ability to accomplish feats of physical agility or endurance as there are thousands to millions of young adults within our country who could not acheive at trip to the top of a 14'r. that individual is a rare exception i'm afraid!

additionally, cognitive capability should be a factor in your equation.

as a youth ~ middle age, i was always under the misconception the early settler's life span was diminished due to the harsh environment they lived. that is until i researched my lineage and discovered longevity, doumented proof --gaggles of relatives initially in coming from British Is. as young adults o/a 1690 living into their 70s, thru the ggf who died at 93 in 1922. after that point, age expectancy fell to early 80s to now around mid 70s. it is a startling discovery which has caused me to ponder, what in our environment and society has caused this shift, at least in my lineage!

finally, we all know numerous individuals in their middle age group who are "olde" through and by their actions, in their physical health, and finally by their cognitive behaviour(s).
remember soylent green
careful david...some could consider you olde!

ipse
 

since9

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do not confuse chronical time span with an ability to accomplish feats of physical agility or endurance as there are thousands to millions of young adults within our country who could not acheive at trip to the top of a 14'r. that individual is a rare exception i'm afraid!

additionally, cognitive capability should be a factor in your equation.

as a youth ~ middle age, i was always under the misconception the early settler's life span was diminished due to the harsh environment they lived. that is until i researched my lineage and discovered longevity, doumented proof --gaggles of relatives initially in coming from British Is. as young adults o/a 1690 living into their 70s, thru the ggf who died at 93 in 1922. after that point, age expectancy fell to early 80s to now around mid 70s. it is a startling discovery which has caused me to ponder, what in our environment and society has caused this shift, at least in my lineage!

finally, we all know numerous individuals in their middle age group who are "olde" through and by their actions, in their physical health, and finally by their cognitive behaviour(s).
remember soylent green
careful david...some could consider you olde!

ipse

solus, you've read my mind, if not my lineage. My eldest lineage died after 100; my paternal line at 97. LONG way to go until these ***** take over...
 

XD40sc

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Many old folks think that only the gov't should have guns ... 'cause they re scared. But what's to be scared of? You are already close to death's door, why worry?
Pardon my french, but bull$*&#.

I'm old, I'm not scared, but I am armed. My wife is old, she is not scared, and she is armed. Most of my friends are old, and probably 70% of them carry, and the rest have guns at home.

And I'm healthy, and figure got another 15-20 years of living and I'll be damned if some punk is going to interrupt that. I can't run that far, I can't fight, but I sure as hell can shoot. Old people are the ones the young punks need to be scared of.
 

cloudcroft

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"Pardon my french, but bull$*&#." -- XD40sc


No, it's not. Read what David actually said: He said "many" old people, not "all" old people. Meaning, not people like you and your wife. Or me, myself and I -- 3 more "old people." So plus you & your wife, that's 5 of us "old people" here presently, who David was NOT referring to. ;-)

But "old people" like you -- and I -- are a MINORITY in America nowadays. MOST "old people" are passive, naïve, shallow "thinkers," clueless, don't know much about anything (and never learned much their entire lives), anti-gun/pacifist and defenseless victims-waiting-to-happen. As such, they're LIBERALS. And as the Baby Boomers get older, there'll be even MORE such victims available for the predators out there.

America is a fading shadow of it's former self as the sun rises on "New America." Even the American flag doesn't stand for what it used to. The country has changed BIG-TIME in just 2-3 decades -- for the WORSE!

If pro-gun/no-nonsense people like you and your wife actually WERE the majority, we'd not have this persistent and ubiquitous anti-gun agenda AND its successes we are seeing today. If you think there are a whole lot of people like you in America -- a so-called "Silent Majority" -- you're kidding yourself, or it's just wishful thinking. It's over. The last time the "Silent Majority" could be considered conservative was during the Nixon years. Even the so-called "Noblest Generation" (a complete misnomer) sold-out traditional American culture and values decades ago as they slowly became brainwashed and joined the New Wave/Progressives. The few WWII generation who didn't sell-out are part of "our" ever-decreasing "conservative minority."

TODAY, the "Silent Majority" is liberal...and HAS been for what, maybe 30 years now? At least since the concept & practice of Political Correctness appeared (late 1980s/early 1990s, IIRC).

The only thing left to find out is just how bad it's going to get and whether there's any "American Spring" (Civil War II or Culture War I) when it becomes intolerable...IF, that is, by then there are enough real Americans left to make any difference/change anyway. Probably not...

BTW, real Americans, real Christians and real men & women are also are a fading minority -- along with personal character traits such as integrity, honesty and honor -- but that's another topic.


P.S. I agree with you re: your other comments, especially the LAST one! :)
 
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Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by skidmark

I'm old. Get used to it. ...
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by XD40sc

Pardon my french, but bull$*&#. ...
The above kind of proves the point the OP was making.

For whatever reason old folks take the liberty to be mean, nobody gave it to them. Talk about the "me" generation. :rolleyes:
It is the benefit you get from outliving others - you paid your dues, know what I mean? :)
 

Grapeshot

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Advanced year do ot justify being a old grumpy dude, or so my Grand Pappy told me.
No justification intended, it goes with the territory.......especially with those of the younger generation who make that determination w/o getting the message.
 

skidmark

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Advanced year do ot justify being a old grumpy dude, or so my Grand Pappy told me.

One of the disadvantages of being old is having made that mistake at least once myself, and in spite of trying to help those younger than me avoid making that mistake at least once themselves, I more often than not run into the next crop of "youngsters" bound and determined to make that mistake for themselves in spite of at least two generations trying to help them not do that.

Those that do not remember history are bound to repeat it. Those that do remember history are bound to have to watch those who do not remember repeat that history. After a while it gets - pardon the expression - old.


grumpy
[gruhm-pee]

surly or ill-tempered; discontentedly or sullenly irritable; grouchy.

curmudgeon
[kər-ˈmə-jən]

a person (especially an old man) who is easily annoyed or angered and who often complains.

There^ See what I mean? Seems like several times a year I have to go through the process of teaching yet another whippersnapper the difference.

For the record, I am not grumpy, nor am I any of the other six dwarfs. I'm a curmudgeon.

stay safe.
 

XD40sc

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This is one of my favorite statements on old, the image.

(The guy looks like one of my bosses, a GM-14 Chief Test Engineer, that became a nuke during the long ride home from Cuba. He was delivered by submarine, swam ashore and did his job, then was picked up and the boat took a long circuitous route home with nothing for a 'swimmer' to do, so he hung around in the engineroom.)

I have an anonymous facebook account, (not my name) and that image has been my FB picture for a year or better, plus the wallpaper on my phone.

Dungaree's and a dixie cup, must have been in port because while at sea we wore a ball-cap.
 
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XD40sc

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It is the benefit you get from outliving others - you paid your dues, know what I mean? :)

Yep, paid our dues and now with the hash marks on our sleeve have earned the experience and right to tell the youth that they have a lot to learn about life and living.
 

XD40sc

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NC
I am so damn glad that I am not in Greenert's navy. I was in Zumwalt's navy, sub, and had a fireman's black cap and moccasins under weigh.

Bell bottoms and boondockers, tailored crackerjacks, thirteen buttons, liberty cuffs, lockers off base, taxi fare under the crow. My wife accuses me of still folding laundry like I was pressing it under my bunk pad. I told the short timers to write the good stuff down in their short-timer's calendar because they were only going to remember the bad times.

ETA: Experience is a good teacher. A bad experience is a better teacher. See it, do it, teach it.

Another sea story, about the glass coffee cups. We did daily ops out of St. Croix, in the Tongue of the Ocean. The water was so clear that the ring of white glass coffee cups that had fallen over board could be seen on the bottom. The stupid brown ones were pressed wood chip that fell apart left submerged.
I was a few years ahead of you, I was in McDonald's and Moorer's Navy.

I was on a bird farm, late 60's. Smallest division on the ship, had Marines to control access to our spaces and magazines filled with tactical nukes, so no one bothered us, and never hit another lick after I sewed on my crow. Had gaberdine liberty blues with liberty cuff's, roll of nickles rolled into my neckerchief.

Years later I saw what I first thought was a chief in the airport, but it was only a deuce.

mS2CA-Giw4OfHIKTJ5fUxxQ.jpg
 
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OC for ME

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No justification intended, it goes with the territory.......especially with those of the younger generation who make that determination w/o getting the message.
No, it does not go with the territory. This claim is an excuse to justify grumpiness. That "I've been there done that, earned my stripes" claptrap...pffft

My flat-belly days are long behind me, by the way. In my experience, old grumpy dudes are grumpy because they choose to be grumpy. The vast majority of old dudes I know are not grumpy. I suspect the seasoned citizens on these forums fall into this category when met in person.
 

Grapeshot

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No, it does not go with the territory. This claim is an excuse to justify grumpiness. That "I've been there done that, earned my stripes" claptrap...pffft

My flat-belly days are long behind me, by the way. In my experience, old grumpy dudes are grumpy because they choose to be grumpy. The vast majority of old dudes I know are not grumpy. I suspect the seasoned citizens on these forums fall into this category when met in person.
It is quite obvious that you are missing the light hearted, non-judgemental tone of my posts on the subject.

Even at that, grumpiness is often a determination of the other party. Facial expression and body language are lacking in internet communication. I smile a lot.
 

since9

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In my experience, old grumpy dudes are grumpy because they choose to be grumpy. The vast majority of old dudes I know are not grumpy. I suspect the seasoned citizens on these forums fall into this category when met in person.

The vast majority of people my age and older are not grumpy. They're actually fairly upbeat people, happy to spend time with others. I do know a few grumps, but they're rare.

I think grapeshot's observation is correct. If people appear grumpy online, it's usually because they're not very happy about the topic at hand. That bleeds through, although the sentiment probably evaporates about ten seconds after they hit the Submit Reply button.

In large part message forums serve as a valuable vent, a way for us to get things off our chest. If it seems like we're grumpy and complaining, that's because we are.

The mistake lies in thinking we're always this way. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
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