Prescott/PV Area

[bc.cruiser]

You could also carry a Taurus Judge, loaded with .410 shells.



Personally, I've used a walking stick and/or a long sock with a stone in it. Dogs aren't stupid; when pain becomes the reward for unwanted behavior, the behavior changes.

 

[CJ4wd]

You could also carry a Taurus Judge, loaded with .410 shells.

Personally, I've used a walking stick and/or a long sock with a stone in it. Dogs aren't stupid; when pain becomes the reward for unwanted behavior, the behavior changes.

Back when I was in college, I used to ride a 10-speed to go grocery shopping. On one street, there was a german shepherd that would charge out at passerbys, including cars. There was no curb, just a shallow depression between the road and the sidewalk and the owner did nothing to stop the dog. Then came the time when I had my motorcycle and I decided to wear my hiking boots. As I went down that street, I saw the dog in the front yard up ahead and slowed down a bit, leaned forward and stuck my right leg back by the rear tire. When the dog charged, I swung my leg up, catching the dog under the jaw with the top of my foot. This threw his head back and knocked him over, backwards. I pulled up 3-4 doors down and looked back to see what he did. After a few seconds, he got up, shook his head and went back into his yard, a bit unsteadily.

Every time after that, whenever I went by on either bike or cycle, he would not charge any closer to the street than the sidewalk. He would stand in the opening of his fence and just bark. He learned.

 

[richbuff]

I met with a very nice, polite officer at the station. He informed me that Mossberg Shockwave is legal to purchase in Arizona, hence legal to carry open or concealed. He did request, very nicely and politely, that I not, because the station would be flooded with calls to report person open carrying the firearm. The conversation was a lot friendlier than I could have possibly expected. No name calling, no ad hominem attack, no condescending content or process in his communication with me, not verbally or via facial expression. This surprised me, because name calling, ad hominem attack and condescending content is the usual when discussing OC versus CC in on-line forums.

So, I have decided to stick with daily OC rotation of .40 Shield, Glock 29 with 15 round magazine, Glock 27 with 13 round magazine and .45 stainless lightweight Colt Defender. But, when I am ambush charged by one or more vicious dogs, I really would like to have more than a pistol. Maybe this: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRM_Arms_Model_1216

But, I will have to settle for OC pistol, even though it is just a pistol, due to immense societal pressure against carrying a larger firearm.

Well, anyway, I am the only person daily OCing in my neighborhood. Maybe due to strong societal pressure. Everyone else can waste precious tenths of a second of critical draw time to keep their firearm covered to keep their neighbors, friends and acquaintances happy.

 

[gutshot II]

I met with a very nice, polite officer at the station. He informed me that Mossberg Shockwave is legal to purchase in Arizona, hence legal to carry open or concealed. He did request, very nicely and politely, that I not, because the station would be flooded with calls to report person open carrying the firearm. The conversation was a lot friendlier than I could have possibly expected. No name calling, no ad hominem attack, no condescending content or process in his communication with me, not verbally or via facial expression. This surprised me, because name calling, ad hominem attack and condescending content is the usual when discussing OC versus CC in on-line forums. ...snip...

What other rights and privileges did he suggest you surrender in order to make his job easier.

 

[Phoenix David]

Buy a nice sturdy walking stick that way you don't have to shoot all the dogs that look in your direction.

Seem to recall a Michael Caines/Kains(?) a few years back, like 2002 spent 24K defending on a dog shooting in Prescott, might be cheaper in the long run.

 

[richbuff]

Today, I was again stopped by Prescott police while briskly walking open carry 10mm Glock 29 with Glock 20 magazine. They told me that they did not need to see my ID, and they stopped me because someone reported that I appeared to be walking while appearing to be angry, talking to my self. I responded that I walk briskly, and I have Led Zeppelin and Nirvana tunes playing loud in my head. They told me that they know me from my previous contacts with them. I told them that I have been walking the same six brisk miles daily for 26 months, and everyone knows me. They told me I am all good, just checking, no problem, but why 15 round magazine? I told them that is standard for standard size Glock 10mm pistol, and I carry it in case of multiple assailants. They politely asked me to be "mindful" of how I may appear to other people.

Phoenix David: As I have previously posted, when I get ambush charged by multiple vicious dogs, I do not have any spare tenths of a second to attempt a hierarchy of interventions. There will be no time spent making myself look bigger, there will be no time spent slapping my leg with a rolled up newspaper, there will be no sensory irritants sprayed in the stiff wind, there will be no sticks, stones, air horns, knives, there will be no yelling "No!", nor any other tactics that I do not have time to deploy.

 

[solus]

Today, I was again stopped by Prescott police while briskly walking open carry 10mm Glock 29 with Glock 20 magazine. They told me that they did not need to see my ID, and they stopped me because someone reported that I appeared to be walking while appearing to be angry, talking to my self. I responded that I walk briskly, and I have Led Zeppelin and Nirvana tunes playing loud in my head. They told me that they know me from my previous contacts with them. I told them that I have been walking the same six brisk miles daily for 26 months, and everyone knows me. They told me I am all good, just checking, no problem, but why 15 round magazine? I told them that is standard for standard size Glock 10mm pistol, and I carry it in case of multiple assailants. They politely asked me to be "mindful" of how I may appear to other people.

Snipp....

richbuff, might I suggest you immediately do a couple of things as it sounds to me you are now being intentionally swatted by someone!

1. Investigate FOIA submission for your locale. Fill two or one, if state/locale permits, FOIA inquiry regarding the two dates you were accosted by the nice LEs asking for 911 transcripts, dispatch logs, LE contact reports, if any!

a. Review them to see if there is an area identifiable where you walked through that precipitated a 911 call, e.g., you left at 0900L down your stand route and both calls were generated at say 0933L when you are in subdivision XYZ.

b. Review them to see if there are similarities in calls regarding some ‘quirky’ characterization that percipated the call, e.g., like this recent stop the nice LE stated you were agressively walking and talking to your self.

c. Review them to see how LE dispatch is responding to citizens reporting other citizen’s OC’g.

2. Find semi current news articles fom mother’s against everything regarding their national call to their membership to call in to 911 and exacerbate the callers worry, therefore to swat carriers of firearms they want to harrass.

3. Once you have a demographic handle, schedule an appointment with the Sheriff, yes Sheriff since they are the top elected peace officer in each of the county’s of this nation and quietly sit, with recorder on the table, and ask why this LE harassment is being allowed to continue and that you actually feel afraid for your wellbeing by the continual dispatch of LE from bogus calls.

a. Could the Sheriff assure further training is given to dispatch regarding ‘citizen with a gun’ calls.

b. Could the Sheriff investigate the 911 calls from a filing false emergency perspective and perhaps, if you play your cards right, ask if the reports are from the same citizen could a deputy go chat with the complaining citizen to see whats going on!

Note it is presumed the accosting from LEs is due to citizen’s complaints, if no 911 calls were made and the LEs are initiated this interaction on their own volition, please contact an attorney immediately for legal counsel regarding a path foreward.

Richbuff, you have been lucky to date, but if you continue to get the reporting citzen’s ire, they may report you are waving the firearm around as well as the citizen could reports you are a danger to the community, dispatch might be new and send muliple armed swat LE, and in the end, you end up being the worse for wear!

i presume you have a viable recorder for future walks?

 

[richbuff]

solus, Thank you for your very informative and helpful post; I copied your instructions to a text document pending printing them out, and I bookmarked the link to your post. Your important post would make a nice sticky: What to do if you are regularly contacted by local police for OC.

I made an informal inquiry at the police station, they told me that motorists, not residents, made the calls. One day, people in the USA will know that OC is not grounds to call Emergency 911.

I do need to sit down with the proper personnel to discuss additional Dispatch training, in response to calls in re person OC.

I do need to get a camcorder, too.

All of your other points are spot on, too.

Again, thank you!

 

[solus]

snipp...

I made an informal inquiry at the police station, they told me that motorists, not residents, made the calls. One day, people in the USA will know that OC is not grounds to call Emergency 911.

Snipp...

rich, quit talking to the local police until such time as you have filed FIOA(s), reviewed the data, and talked to the sheriff...you do not wish to needlessly alienate anybody, especially if the reviewed data points elsewhere, e.g., supporter of mom’s against everyone campaign who is also bragging to FB cronies of their antics.

Remember, it could be the local constabulary, you are chatting with who are precipitating your continued harassment. Remember, the LE’s are allowed to lie to citizens with impunity.

please, if approached again by LEs on your future walks put your hands up and completely away from your firearm to preclude any type of aggressive action, real or perceived!

ps: tks for the kind words.

 

[richbuff]

I have been open carrying Glock 29 six miles daily, about an hour and a half a day, for a few months now.

Today, Sat. Oct. 6 2018 10:08 am:

Stepping out my door onto the sidewalk directly adjacent to my residence brought me there again, six mile walk daily, eleven and a half months later, 2,100 miles later, 42,000 blocks later. Medium-large size dog full-bore charged me from my neighbors' residential property directly across the street, I stopped it 12 inches or less from my feet. This time, no arrest. Its blood spattered onto my pants leg cuff. I did not have one extra tenth of a second to spare. The sound of my first shot did not cause it to show any hesitation.

 

[solus]

I am still getting threatened with bodily harm in the single family residential streets in Prescott; again early this (Sunday) morning. I was open carrying Glock 29 10mm aiwb with my shirt tucked behind the sidearm to render it readily visible. I proceeded on my usual daily route to a residential block where I have never been threatened before, so I pulled my shirt over the sidearm to conceal it. From across the street in half a second, I get charged by a medium size dog that is overtly agitated with me because my ankle is oh so suddenly only twelve inches away from its gnashing jaws. Due to the fact that the owner hurried as fast as she could to scoop up her obstreperous canine, I did not attempt to clear leather, even though I came exceedingly close to doing so.

I feel undergunned armed with only a pistol.

Is it legal to open carry Mossberg Shockwave in Prescott? This firearm is 26.5 inches long, so it is impractical to carry concealed. Also, I am not interested in carrying it concealed. I am interested in carrying it open. Therefore, it needs to be in a scabbard or holster.
Well, anyway, I will be asking the local authorities this question in about 12 hours, in person.

I have been open carrying Glock 29 six miles daily, about an hour and a half a day, for a few months now.

Today, Sat. Oct. 6 2018 10:08 am:

Stepping out my door onto the sidewalk directly adjacent to my residence brought me there again, six mile walk daily, eleven and a half months later, 2,100 miles later, 42,000 blocks later. Medium-large size dog full-bore charged me from my neighbors' residential property directly across the street, I stopped it 12 inches or less from my feet. This time, no arrest. Its blood spattered onto my pants leg cuff. I did not have one extra tenth of a second to spare. The sound of my first shot did not cause it to show any hesitation.

Empathy nawlll!

Terribly sorry you were unable to mitigate your issues with the neighbour’s wandering pet and even after forum discussions regarding viable non-lethal options to deter the animal that the only option was for you to kill the animal.

While no judicial charges were brought, please be aware of and good luck on the neighbour’s civil suit which may be pending.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

When one only has a hammer everything becomes a nail.

 

[color of law]

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03107.htm

13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions
C. This section does not apply if the firearm is discharged:
9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[OC for ME]

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03107.htm

13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions
C. This section does not apply if the firearm is discharged:
9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Statute seems reasonable to me. Missouri does not have, that I can locate, similarly objective language in their statutes. Thanks, I'll be contacting my state reps.