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Providing ID when open carrying

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solus

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fuller, it was unfortunate the incident you recanted occurred, and i truly understand the ROI from your hard earned money & time and any possible positive results.

i have had such incidents and every time i say...you know next time i will just go along with the 'game' they want to play and every time the situation manifests itself i stand up to what i know is an obvious assault on my civil liberties.

then the recriminations, both mentally as well start from friends...oh you are wrong, or you should have just followed their directions, or, or, or...

i appreciated the comment about the neon t-shirt...nice touch...being a gentleman, neon nor being a bad arse w/a gun down my thigh isn't my style at all. :eek:

bottom line thanks for sharing and for your continued vocalization against the slow deterioration of good citizen's civil liberties by those who supposed to serve and protect...

ipse
 

stealthyeliminator

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First, wasn't aware you are his official spoke person. That was a sincere direct question to him. Hence me quoting him and asking a straight question.

Second, I was asking if his view IS based on that incident or others. I'm not trying to make anything look like anything. I would say being ripped from a car and having 5 rifles pointed at you would be a reason to be pissed off at police. I NEVER said other peoples incidents couldt affect him. But.... if you think for a second that him reading about some dude in Kansas who is detained by an officer is going to have a greater impact on how mindset then his personal violations then you have issues. He can be the biggest rights activist in the world. I bet the rifles in HIS face are the realest and leave the greatest impression.

Third, as usual no personal attacks except towards me. It was actually an attempt at a civil question towards him. Funny part is I've actually asked him more then once what the incident was that has caused so much hate. I've more often then not said it was he was turned down a job on a PD. While that is me poking at him ( I admit it) the premise is the same. SOME incident has happened to cause his hate and or malice.... low and behold he comes up with a pretty severe incident where he was clearly violated in many ways. I can understand why that would leave a bad taste in his mouth.

Finally, someone who goes to as great of lengths as his does to show police in a bad light can ONLY be due to personal bad experience. You don't spend 30 mins and two paragraphs to creatively bash something or someone that could be said in 6 words just because your so upset someone else was yelled at or violated. Its a very personal thing.

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Do you believe that having a personal reason to dislike specific police officers serves in any way to lessen the credibility of a philosophical position that modern police forces, as they are a component of traditional government, have fundamental immoralities?

Do you believe that every person who holds a philosophical position that modern police forces, as they are a component of traditional government, have fundamental immoralities, must have had a personal experience to trigger the acceptance or entrancement of that philosophical position?
 

solus

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Darn that spiel-checker. Recant: To withdraw or repudiate a statement or opinion formerly expressed, especially formally and publicly.
good to see the spelling zombie is alive and well...

thank goodness your computer has cut and paste capabilities so you can paste in the definition...

ipse
 
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Primus

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Do you believe that having a personal reason to dislike specific police officers serves in any way to lessen the credibility of a philosophical position that modern police forces, as they are a component of traditional government, have fundamental immoralities?

Do you believe that every person who holds a philosophical position that modern police forces, as they are a component of traditional government, have fundamental immoralities, must have had a personal experience to trigger the acceptance or entrancement of that philosophical position?
No I dont believe either.

Listen.... look at his avatar... take a good look. No one else on here goes so far as to put that kind of stuff up. Again.. he takes it to a whole different level then "philosophy"

Svg is a good example of a guy who is about the philosophy. He does a damn good job of defending and pursuing that philosophy on here and other places. He has had personal experiences that motivate him. But he doesn't take it nearly as far. FM is a whole different animal and does more to hurt the cause then help.

This guy just the other day was advocating with another poster about harming officers and their families. Kygunner (thats close to his handle I'll correct it in a second) stepped in and called them on it.

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Primus

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Edit: it was DrakeZ07 who corrected them.

See "Ohio National Guard......" thread. Specifically posts 3 and 4.

HP Matt gives right for the seek out guys at their house and attack their FAMILY.... the FM follows right up with "things at their dig tit for tat like...."

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Fuller Malarkey

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Edit: it was DrakeZ07 who corrected them.

See "Ohio National Guard......" thread. Specifically posts 3 and 4.

HP Matt gives right for the seek out guys at their house and attack their FAMILY.... the FM follows right up with "things at their dig tit for tat like...."

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More WHINING
 

WalkingWolf

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I've seen a lot of open carry videos where the cops arrive because of a report of a "person with a gun". Almost every single time, the OCer refuses to provide ID when the officer invariably asks. On the one hand, I understand the refusal, as you're only supposed to provide ID when there's suspicion of a crime occurring or having occurred. However, since there ARE laws prohibiting certain people from possessing firearms, is it not reasonable to provide ID to show that you are able to be carrying that firearm? Don't they have a justifiable reason for asking for/demanding that you identify yourself? And if not, can someone explain why not?

BTW, if I ever get stopped for OCing, I believe I would provide ID if asked. I have no problem with them knowing who I am, and I have no reason to prevent them from running a check on me. I personally feel that it will make things less contentious if you show a little cooperation. This does not mean that I will willingly surrender my weapon to an officer, but I have no problem with them checking to make sure I'm not prohibited from owning/carrying the weapon.
Kewl, then you don't mind every crook with a scanner knowing your name address, and you are not home.
 

WalkingWolf

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So does that mean I can walk around with a concealed firearm without a license, and they have no right to stop me, or make sure I have a license, or arrest me?
Granted you are not in the 4th district federal court, but the 4th ruled in US V Black that without RAS police cannot search. And the concealed firearm by the felon the conviction was overturned. So in NC without RAS, a police officer cannot search you for a weapon.
 

Tackleberry1

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Edit: it was DrakeZ07 who corrected them.

See "Ohio National Guard......" thread. Specifically posts 3 and 4.

HP Matt gives right for the seek out guys at their house and attack their FAMILY.... the FM follows right up with "things at their dig tit for tat like...."

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I'm curious... Were they advocating violence? Or were they engaging in a hypothetical debate regarding effective tactics for dealing with armed gang members?

Fairly sure King George leveled similar accusations at Americas founders back when the Red Coats were the ones running around stepping on liberty.

Tack
 

WalkingWolf

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So now running from the police is no longer grounds for pursuit and detention? Man, that's going to make future episodes of COPS kinda boring... ;)
Do you jog? Black tried to break off the encounter before he ran, the officers illegally detained him from the beginning. There claim to RAS was that because one person had a gun, likely others possessed one. The court ruled it was unreasonable and that a openly carried handgun does not give reason for a search of the open carrier or anybody with that person.
 

WalkingWolf

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A few ways: it imprints when you move a certain way, it gets exposed when you move a certain way... I'm sure there's other circumstances where they could see that you are carrying.
I concealed a 1911 for a good many years with nobody ever knowing I had it, and this was in a state that outlawed carry completely by non LE. I was a LE so I was good to go, but the public did not know that, so if they had seen me "printing" they would have thought of me as anyone one else in Illinois.
 

WalkingWolf

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Local PD is encripted.
Almost any departments communications are available over the internet, UNSCRAMBLED. There are also apps on smart phones to listen to police calls over the internet. BTW how would you know they are encrypted, because they say so?
 

DaveT319

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There was a site that used to stream their radio, but they had to stop because they started encrypting it.
 

WalkingWolf

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There was a site that used to stream their radio, but they had to stop because they started encrypting it.
Again how do you know they encrypted the traffic? Do you have a scanner, or did someone just tell you they did? Most departments are on a repeater, with some systems you need both frequencies.
 

Fuller Malarkey

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Edit: it was DrakeZ07 who corrected them.

See "Ohio National Guard......" thread. Specifically posts 3 and 4.

HP Matt gives right for the seek out guys at their house and attack their FAMILY.... the FM follows right up with "things at their dig tit for tat like...."

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Booze and your keyboard aren't a good match Skippy.

Here's the Whiner's girly-part irritant:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ng-Terrorism&p=2034868&viewfull=1#post2034868

"I wonder if much of the "zeal" of participating in sanctioned invasions by government thugs would be dampened if the thugs involved had to worry that the compadres of those they were hunting down like animals were in fact closing in on the thug's digs. Tit for tat.

I suspect the voiced discontent from the Mundanes is what is behind a lot of the dispensing of vehicles of war and the arming of police with weapons of war to replace their tools of keeping the peace is to discourage a gathering of the Mundanes the next time the Occupiers throw another Ruby Ridge or Waco."

"Wondering" and "suspecting" sends our boy Primi on a whining jag only second to a stuck hog in annoying quality. I "wondered" and "suspected"......not exactly the threatening terms of someone "advocating" harming the little children of the noble and brave commandos that keep us safe from the boogie man. :lol:
 
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Primus

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I'm curious... Were they advocating violence? Or were they engaging in a hypothetical debate regarding effective tactics for dealing with armed gang members?

Fairly sure King George leveled similar accusations at Americas founders back when the Red Coats were the ones running around stepping on liberty.

Tack
You tell me...

"HPMATT-I would think that the Facists in various parts of the Government would use State National Guard in other parts of the country - like use Ohio guard to suppress citizens of KY or MD, and say WV against Ohioans or Indianans. Don't know whether guardsman Ohio would be hung-ho for another Kent State, but this time doing the bidding of the anarchists against everyday folks protecting their homes and families.

I still say we know where the soldiers/police/TSA people live, their families and as such there will be consequences if they violate our rights and lives. Look up MA Lt Gov Tom Hutchison when he supported King George over the Sons of Liberty and the Stamp Act."


"Fullar Mullarky-I wonder if much of the "zeal" of participating in sanctioned invasions by government thugs would be dampened if the thugs involved had to worry that the compadres of those they were hunting down like animals were in fact closing in on the thug's digs. Tit for tat.

I suspect the voiced discontent from the Mundanes is what is behind a lot of the dispensing of vehicles of war and the arming of police with weapons of war to replace their tools of keeping the peace is to discourage a gathering of the Mundanes the next time the Occupiers throw another Ruby Ridge or Waco."


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Guard-Training-Envisions-Right-Wing-Terrorism

Right here on in black and red. I even took the liberty of bolding, highlighting, and enlarging for ease of reference. "know where the SOLDIERS/POLICE/TSA people live and their FAMILIES and their will be CONSEQUENCES"... and then "compadres of those they were hunting down like animals were in fact closing in on they thug's DIGS. TIT FOR TAT"

Now here's the million dollar question.... for every person on this entire forum that has ever said "the thugs who stand by and let other thugs violate rights are just as bad and need to be fired".... where is your outrage that 2 members straight out threatened my family and the families of many others? Where is the damnation? The shunning of them? Anyone call for their banning from the site? Wouldn't that be the same as calling for my coworker to get fired for detaining someone wrongfully? There was ONE person who stood up and called this out. DRAKEZ07. I have respect for him for at least standing up and calling the people who said this out. The rest I would say are hypocrites.

Instead guys like this are rewarded and seen as the "cadre" or cool kids. I wonder how may points for these infractions you get? I'm guessing none as long as your a card carrying member...
 
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Tackleberry1

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I see terms like "wonder" and "suspect"... I don't see calls for violence.

I also see great value in this line of reasoning because it is based not only in historical fact... But in the historical record of own Nations birth.

Colonists lived in peace with the British authorities for generations until one day EVERYTHING changed. Of course the revolution was not touched off by single days events but a culmination of a long train of abuses that reached a flash point at Concord bridge over an attempt to secure Colonial Arms.

I can certainly understand this conversation being uncomfortable for an LEO and I would expect it to illicit a response, but your uneasiness is no reason to sensor the discussion.

The reality is that our ancestors carved liberty out of oppression and did it at gun point. To think it could not or will not happen again is, IMHO, naive. The homes and families of participants on both sides were targeted by opposing forces then, and certainly would be again.

No one wishes to see American on American violence and what shocks me is the "you can't say that" response whenever this possibility is raised.

Personally, I find nothing extreme or upsetting about the true intent of 2A.

...and I believe that if we truly hope to avoid this type of violence, we should have the candor to discuss it.

Tack

You tell me...

"HPMATT-I would think that the Facists in various parts of the Government would use State National Guard in other parts of the country - like use Ohio guard to suppress citizens of KY or MD, and say WV against Ohioans or Indianans. Don't know whether guardsman Ohio would be hung-ho for another Kent State, but this time doing the bidding of the anarchists against everyday folks protecting their homes and families.

I still say we know where the soldiers/police/TSA people live, their families and as such there will be consequences if they violate our rights and lives. Look up MA Lt Gov Tom Hutchison when he supported King George over the Sons of Liberty and the Stamp Act."


"
Fullar Mullarky-I wonder if much of the "zeal" of participating in sanctioned invasions by government thugs would be dampened if the thugs involved had to worry that the compadres of those they were hunting down like animals were in fact closing in on the thug's digs. Tit for tat.

I suspect the voiced discontent from the Mundanes is what is behind a lot of the dispensing of vehicles of war and the arming of police with weapons of war to replace their tools of keeping the peace is to discourage a gathering of the Mundanes the next time the Occupiers throw another Ruby Ridge or Waco."


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Guard-Training-Envisions-Right-Wing-Terrorism

Right here on in black and red. I even took the liberty of bolding, highlighting, and enlarging for ease of reference. "know where the SOLDIERS/POLICE/TSA people live and their FAMILIES and their will be CONSEQUENCES"... and then "compadres of those they were hunting down like animals were in fact closing in on they thug's DIGS. TIT FOR TAT"

Now here's the million dollar question.... for every person on this entire forum that has ever said "the thugs who stand by and let other thugs violate rights are just as bad and need to be fired".... where is your outrage that 2 members straight out threatened my family and the families of many others? Where is the damnation? The shunning of them? Anyone call for their banning from the site? Wouldn't that be the same as calling for my coworker to get fired for detaining someone wrongfully? There was ONE person who stood up and called this out. DRAKEZ07. I have respect for him for at least standing up and calling the people who said this out. The rest I would say are hypocrites.

Instead guys like this are rewarded and seen as the "cadre" or cool kids. I wonder how may points for these infractions you get? I'm guessing none as long as your a card carrying member...
 
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