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Question: OC/CC in Denver, when in control of private property...

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Mine is a little better. Criminally, it will provide for the substantial retainer, as well as 250,000 bond. I pay after the retainer then it will reimburse me if there is not guilt. However, the retainer being what it is in my policy, I'm ok with that. Civilly, it will provide immediate defense and will insure damages to a set amount.

It won't insure the sky, but I don't feel under-insured. I am somewhat protected.
So on criminal charges you still have to front the money - there are potentially very large "expense" items. That and many cases are not decided favorably in lower court - frequently go through the appellate process. Presume you would have to bear the expense until and if a decision was made favorable to you - then be reimbursed.

Can you link the company/policy type? Would like to review it.

Would also be quite surprised if they would cover civil suit if you were found to be negligent or criminally guilty.
 
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JonStore

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
75
Location
Colorado
So on criminal charges you still have to front the money - there are potentially very large "expense" items. That and many cases are not decided favorably in lower court - frequently go through the appellate process. Presume you would have to bear the expense until and if a decision was made favorable to you - then be reimbursed.

Can you link the company/policy type? Would like to review it.

Would also be quite surprised if they would cover civil suit if you were found to be negligent or criminally guilty.

I won't speak of my carrier or my limits of liability personally, but I did a cursory search on the interwebs and came up with a carrier and policy for illustrative purposes; this example is comparable to my particular plan.

Lockton Affinity underwrites a policy for "Second Call Defense". I note there are a handful of services they offer. The most expensive plan pays $10,000 pretrial retainer. You mentioned being found negligent in a civil case? That is what damage liability coverage does.

Selecting an insurance carrier and coverages is a personal decision that should be done by him/her and a licensed agent. Each situation is different. Personally, the bond and pre-trial retainer for that particular plan is money some people might not have in the bank.

I don't have any interest in the company, just for illustrative as requested. I won't get into extended debate on the advantages and disadvantages, this is an individual decision. I do sway towards recommending some kind of protection, however.
 

JonStore

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
75
Location
Colorado
Our correspondent is proud of his fantabulously expensive lottery ticket. Learn expectation value under decision theory.

Guy, you are really off topic, and your off topic posts makes no sense. Except that it is a jab at somebody. Speak plainly.
 

JonStore

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
75
Location
Colorado
The value of insurance must be comparable to its dollar cost divided by the likelihood of it paying off.

Do not fault another for taking advantage of YOUR ignorance.

This is ignorant. Insurance decided on whether it [meets your odd formula of comparison to division of dollar cost by chance... wth?] pays off? Honestly, I hope no person's use of force indemnity has to pay. How could you call someone ignorant when yourself sir, do not have all the facts. Unless of course you did a personal interview and you are in fact, an actuary. I don't remember you interviewing anyone. Did you?

I sarcastically say I really hope it is likely my car insurance pays off because that make it *worth it*. Your contribution sir, oversimplifies a complex subject; and that behavior is ignorant.

Just for you:
ac·tu·ar·y
ˈak(t)SHəˌwerē/
noun
noun: actuary; plural noun: actuaries

a person who compiles and analyzes statistics and uses them to calculate insurance risks and premiums.
 
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JonStore

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
75
Location
Colorado

I took a couple of minutes to scan it, but I will read more later. I will do that for you. Will you clarify something for me? Do I understand you to mean that you do not believe that covering the exposure (indemnification) is not recommended because you believe the exposure to not really be there [no exposure]? Or that the likelihood of exposure is so small that it would not be worthwhile to cover that exposure. Or do you believe these companies a scam? I'm having a really hard time reading your meanings.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Insurance companies have people dedicated to denying or reducing claims. Read the fine print and prepare to do battle.

As I understand it JonStore, you maintain that damage liability coverage will pay off on civil claims even if you are negligent i.e. found guilty in criminal court. I know of no policy, no insurance company, that will indemnify a policy holder who commits a criminal act and is sued + looses - none, nada, zilch.
 

JonStore

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
75
Location
Colorado
Insurance companies have people dedicated to denying or reducing claims. Read the fine print and prepare to do battle.

As I understand it JonStore, you maintain that damage liability coverage will pay off on civil claims even if you are negligent i.e. found guilty in criminal court. I know of no policy, no insurance company, that will indemnify a policy holder who commits a criminal act and is sued + looses - none, nada, zilch.


No sir. I only ever intended to address negligence in a civil claim.
 

Beau

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
I signed up with US Law Shield. Covers 100% attorney fees in both criminal and civil. Even if you don't have to fire your gun. I'm covered in all 50 states while traveling and my minor children are covered.
 

jackrockblc

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
256
Location
Jefferson County, CO
...I'm covered in all 50 states while traveling...

That is not in line with the reading I've don on their website. Can you post the clause(s) that state this? This is the contract clause that lays out the coverage area (emphasis mine):

USLawshield.com said:
If the Legal Service Contract Holder tenders separate consideration for Multi-State Protection provided by U.S. Law Shield of Colorado, the Legal Service Contract Holder shall be entitled to the same legal services and benefits as described herein for the following states: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. Multi-State Protection is subject to the limitations and exclusions provided herein.
 
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SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
297
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
That is not in line with the reading I've don on their website. Can you post the clause(s) that state this? This is the contract clause that lays out the coverage area (emphasis mine):

It's more states than you list--about 40 I think--but not all fifty of them. Also, you have to pay a bit extra every month for interstate coverage.

Edited to add:

https://www.uslawshield.com/protection-for-firearms-owners/

Click on "Optional Member Coverage" and scroll down.
 
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jackrockblc

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
256
Location
Jefferson County, CO
It's more states than you list--about 40 I think--but not all fifty of them. Also, you have to pay a bit extra every month for interstate coverage.

Edited to add:

https://www.uslawshield.com/protection-for-firearms-owners/

Click on "Optional Member Coverage" and scroll down.

The list I posted above is the list of covered states with the optional coverage directly on the agreement you "sign". I see the list you're pointing to (though, I count 49, but may have miscounted), so this sounds we may want to call US Law Shield (cuz I've been considering them for some time) to clarify. Definitely a discrepancy.
 
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SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
297
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
The list I posted above is the list of covered states with the optional coverage directly on the agreement you "sign". I see the list you're pointing to (though, I count 49, but may have miscounted), so this sounds we may want to call US Law Shield (cuz I've been considering them for some time) to clarify. Definitely a discrepancy.

I've been a member for a few months and they used to send out e-mails whenever they added states. When I said "about 40" I was remembering the last e-mail I read. I agree the list I linked contains 48 states plus the District of Columbia, so they'd probably be smarter to say "every state except..., plus the district of columbia" at this point.

On the other hand, I just did a fast search. I was away for a long time last month, and during that time they DID send an e-mail bragging about fifty state coverage. So I owe Beau an apology and they need to update their website.

As far as I know, though, you don't get ANY state other than your own without the optional extra coverage and fee.
 

jackrockblc

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
256
Location
Jefferson County, CO
I've been a member for a few months and they used to send out e-mails whenever they added states. When I said "about 40" I was remembering the last e-mail I read. I agree the list I linked contains 48 states plus the District of Columbia, so they'd probably be smarter to say "every state except..., plus the district of columbia" at this point.

On the other hand, I just did a fast search. I was away for a long time last month, and during that time they DID send an e-mail bragging about fifty state coverage. So I owe Beau an apology and they need to update their website.

As far as I know, though, you don't get ANY state other than your own without the optional extra coverage and fee.

Yeah, it's home state only without the optional coverage. But it is interesting to see so many discrepancies between customer stories and some pages on their own site. I plan on calling them this week, since they're my forerunner for coverage.
 
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