imported post
OK, I'm going to try not to snap at you, but I've gotten incredibly annoyed reading your inane posts which bear only the most tenuous connection with reality.
Dreamer wrote:
I understand what this forum is supposed to be about. I "get" the whole reasoning behind OC, and I support it. But I also understand how successful activism works, and I've decided that I'd rather live my life quietly and work for the cause with my mind and my words than be an "overt activist" and have to attempt to overcome the attitudes that OCers regularly run into because their guns are visible.
OK, right off the bat, you're going to have to
stop completely making things up. Your position here is
absurdly false. If you even OCed 1/10th as often as you pretend you do, you would realize how completely, utterly ridiculous you sound.
OCers do not "regularly" run into "attitudes" they have to "overcome" because "their guns are visible". This is
patently false.
Some OCers are, rarely, hassled. Those who are unfailingly report every incident here.
However, this is does magically equate to "regularly" just because every incident is reported on the fourm, and there are cumulated here numerous reports.
When I am in Virginia, I OC everywhere. The only thing I "routinely" receive is support for the people I meet ("Hey, cool gun!" or "Hey man, good for you!").
I have been asked to leave exactly one place, and had another clown tell me to conceal (illegal as I possess no permit) once (I did not comply, obviously).
I reported both these incidents. But what I did not report was every day where I OCed without negative comment, or every positive incident. The positives and non-incidents account for easily 99% of the reactions OCers receive.
Once again, the only "regular" occurrences were positive or not noteworthy occurrences at all.
If you OCed, instead of trying to prove that it's better to hide in fear, you would already know this. But you don't. Telling, that.
As long as you make things up and spew it as gospel fact while pretending to be "on our side", expect a negative reaction.
Dreamer wrote:
I regularly talk with local LEO's about OC. I figure that if I can get them aware about the laws here in NC, and that people have the right to OC per our State Constitution, Statutes, and Case Law, and that simply OCing is NOT a "stop-able" offense, it will head off a LOT of trouble in the long run for other OCers.
Good for you.
Dreamer wrote:
I try and talk with business owners who have "No Guns" signs, and explain to them the faulty logic of their decision, in a clear, rational way, and usually try to give them some literature about NC gun rights. I hope that what I say to them, and my calm, rational demeanor and respectable appearance makes a positive impression, and might someday get them to change their policies.
You want a pat on the back this time?
Try insulting us by implication less, and praising yourself less as well. At this point, I really don't care how self-satisfied you are.
Dreamer wrote:
I understand that some folks enjoy the adreneline rush of overt activism.
You, once again, demonstrate that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Dreamer wrote:
I understand that repetition of a socially unaccepted practice will desensitize the general public to the point where they eventually won't be shocked, frightened, or offended.
You say that, but you don't sound as though you understand it.
Dreamer wrote:
These are all age-old tools of propaganda, and believe me, as a graphic designer and someone who has worked in Marketing, I am a bit of a student of propaganda and behavior modification.
You expect this to impress me? Way to debase your character.
Dreamer wrote:
"In your face" activism works--there is no denying that. But it's not a tactic for everyone. And in some cases, it can actually INCREASE the public's lack of tolerance for your activities, and can serve to more fully polarize the public against you. And I think that our issue is one of those issues that is SO emotionally charged, and the minds of the people have been SO filled with negative propaganda that overt activism is perhaps not the best way to approach the situation.
So, now we come down to it. You actually
don't get it at all, as you're inexplicably convinced that people react negatively to OC.
Dreamer wrote:
We live in VERY polarized times. The "leadership" of the "left" has been co-opted by people with a nany-state Socialist agenda. The "leadership" of the "right" has been co-opted by people with a Corporate Facist agenda of a One-World Government of total Control. Both "sides" are actually part fo the same coin--a coin that minted from the chains of oppression and valued in terms of usurious profit, social control, and Orwellian double-think. And NEITHER side is interested in being "public servants" anymore. We need to think "outside the Right/Left Dichotomy", and use the same obtuse, indirect, and subtle tactics they have so successfully employed, to counteract the VERY effective brainwashing that BOTH sides have used on the public with regards to firearms.
I agree with you. This is why I make such a fuss about my rejection of the false paradigm of partisan thought, especially where OCing. The last thing that is acceptable to me is my view of liberty being tainted by association with pigeonhole expectations of neoconservative rhetoric.
Dreamer wrote:
What we need to do is not align with or against EITHER side. Don't give the "anti's" the chance to scream and panic. Don't give the NeoCons the chance to accuse you of being a revolutionary. We need to stress that this movement IS NOT so much about wearing a gun on our hip--it's about BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, and the undeniable tenet that ALL humans have the right to be secure in their persons and property, and that self-defense is a fundamental human right. We need to appeal to the mothers, the single women, the intellectuals, the business owners--ALL sorts of people who have historically had their civil rights violated by oppressive "gun control" laws. And we need to do it in a way they understand--by showing them that self-defense is a basic human right, NOT something that is "allowed", and NOT something that the government even has a right to control or regulate.
You're right, but all the letter-writing to politicians won't ever on a cold day in Hell achieve this result. Nor will conversations with indoctrinated police. Only with so-called "overt activism" can the necessary social change be wrought. OC works, and if you cared to advance the cause you'd do it too, because your "covert" activism is what really serves only as back-slapping choir-preaching, and will never influence a single person.
Dreamer wrote:
We need to abandon this whole "sheepdog" BS too.
I agree. It makes us sound smug, and retarded to boot.
Dreamer wrote:
We, as responsible gun owners DO NOT somehow become the gatekeepers of civil safety and security for others. The law is very clear (and the morals and ethics of self-defense are pretty clear too) that you have the RIGHT to protect yourself against a deadly threat. You DO NOT become the "defender of the weak" just because you are handy with a shooting iron, and of the mind to carry it. Personally, I find the whole "sheepdog" discussion to be morally and ethically offensive. Nobody pins a badge on my chest when I strap on a gun, and I don't have ANY legal or moral obligation to come to the aid of anyone else. We don't carry guns for "community defense"--that what police are supposed to be for. We carry for SELF defense. Look it up in a dictionary--"self" is pretty clearly defined, and does NOT include more than one person, unless you have multiple personalities, in which case, you probably can't legally own a firearm anyway...
This is where you lost me again. If this argument of yours is so correct, why do the self-defense laws in basically every state make very little distinction between "self"-defense and "defense of others"?
Is it my duty? No. Am I a sheepdog? No.
Do I think that an armed citizenry has the potential to obviate the perceived necessity of a police state as the means of public security, without individual citizens taking on the role of "law enfarcement officers" and acting like cop-wannabes? Absolutely I do.
Dreamer wrote:
How many people do you talk with every week about OC? I haven't been keeping a diary, but I know that last week, I spoke at length (over 15 minutes) to two people at my university--one student and one faculty. I spoke at length to my stepdaughter's boyfriend, and helped him do research on the laws in his state of residence for several hours over the course of last weekend. I spoke with the guy behind the gun counter at WalMart. I spoke with a middle-aged woman in a local gun store who was purchasing a Bersa .380 auto.
So, this time I should pat you on the back, right?
Guess what, I do the same even here in SF. In Virginia, I talk to people every day, because I OC every day, and OC works. Easily more than just a 3 or 4 in-depth conversations a week, and even more brief ones.
You could be doing more and better if you OCed. That's a fact.
Dreamer wrote:
I spoke with the assistant Chief of Police of my town of residence via phone. I've been discussing at some length, possible tactics for awareness campaigns and "empty holster" protests at my university with the local director of SCCC, and I've volunteered to design and print posters, flyers, and cards to hand out. I talked with two ECU campus police about their misconceptions regarding knives and other weapons on campus, and gave them copies of the State statutes.
Good for you. Cookie this time?
Dreamer wrote:
I've written to my State representatives (once a month, every month since July) regarding my desire for NC to overturn our "restaurant ban" and "venues that charge admission" ban.
Waste of time. No cookie for this.
Dreamer wrote:
And I've talked to probably half a dozen of the guests at the hotel where I work about OC. And that's just been over the last week. I think I'm a very vocal and active member of the OC "cause", and I take every opportunity to educate, inform, and enlighten people about legal OC in my state.
You could do more if you OCed. It sounds like I actually talk to more people than you when I'm OCing.
Dreamer wrote:
I'm currently pursuing getting my NRA certifications for CRSO, Pistol, and Defense Instructor, with the ultimate goal of getting my NC certification to be a CC instructor. And I'm taking my wife and one of my stepdaughters to the range when we get free time, to teach them how to safely and effectively handle and shoot rifle, shotgun, and pistol.
Ah, now it comes out. A professional shill-in-training. No wonder you want people to think OC is scary and "regularly" leads to "negative attitudes".
(No offense to those who don't spread mistruths to bolster their business. I know many honest CC instructors exist).
Dreamer wrote:
What have you you done this week? This month?
Minus the shill training, about the same as yourself.
Are you just "preaching to the choir" by attending OC Meets and posting on a forum, or do you engage, educate, and inform real people in your day-to-day life-- people who are not obviously "in our camp"--in a rational, thoughtful, and non-confrontational way?
There is no choir where I live. Then again, I don't OC here. I would if the law permitted, though. I'm not afraid of "negative reactions", like yourself.
In Virginia, I go to meets for fun. I open carry in my day-to-day life, far more than often than I'll ever spend back-slapping those in complete agreement with my views.
Sorry for my negative attitude. Like I said, expect that.
