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Single action vs double action colt revolver

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WalkingWolf

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I don't think the DA version was a model three, but I could be wrong on that. I avoided calling it number 3. I have seen several bobbed large frame top breaks growing up, one was carried by a railroad agent, his son used it to commit suicide.

To further complicate the TV myth of the SA as the most popular handgun of the turn of the century in 1882 the US Army adopted the Colt M1882 a double action revolver in 38 long colt.

There was enough demand that many companies that specialized in single action revolvers began marketing DA revolvers at the turn of the century including Merwin Hulbert. This gun was made pre 1892.

 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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Here is the first DA 44 S@W.

They were not the famous N0.3 Russian/ Schofield or the hammerless new safety model that Jinks was referring too in the first article mentioned.

Smith & Wesson .44 Double Action First Model

by Garry James - Tuesday, April 23, 2013


Smith & Wesson .44 Double Action First Model

Smith & Wesson’s .44 Double Action First Model revolver seems to be one of that company’s more neglected designs. It tends to be overlooked as it came between the vaunted No. 3 SA and various Hand Ejector Models. The primary chambering was .44 Russian, of which 53,590 were made between 1881 and 1913. Some 15,340 “Frontier” models were also produced, as was a .38-40 Win. Those guns were numbered in individual ranges and are basically considered separate models. All frames were made prior to 1899. Some rare chamberings, such as .38 S&W, .38 Colt and .38-44 Gallery, may be encountered, but they are extremely rare. The First Models continued to be listed in catalogs for a number of years after their production ceased to clear out old stock.

Following the lines of smaller and slightly earlier S&W .32 and .38 top-breaks, the First Model DA incorporated an excellent self-cocking mechanism that was as good as many British and Continental designs. It was also head and shoulders above Colt’s more popular Model 1877 “Lightning” and Model 1878 “Frontier” models, a happenstance that must have been more than frustrating to the folks at Smith.

Smith & Wesson’s First Model DA incorporated the company’s familiar curved grip frame, flanked by either hard rubber or checkered walnut stock panels. The revolver was available in blue and nickel-plated finishes, and barrels were 4, 5, 6, 6½ and 8 inches (rare) in length, with 5 inches being the most common.

First Model DA .44s employed the usual S&W top-break ejection system. The revolver could be fired double- or single-action, though it had no safety position, and the hammer did not rebound after the trigger was released, resulting in a potentially dangerous setup if the gun were dropped.

Standard sights on the First Model DA .44 were similar to those on the No. 3, a rounded, fixed-blade front and miniscule notch rear, milled out of the fore-part of the frame latch. Some guns were fitted with target sights.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Again I never said the number 3, YOU DID. The number 3 was not the only gun that 44 was chambered in. You got caught in another one of your misstatements and now throwing another on of your tantrums.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Your right you never said the no. 3

You said

While most were pocket revolvers the famed S&W Russian in DAO was also a top break.

The No. 3 Russian model/Schofield was/is the most well know and the most produced and the one that is copied today by a couple of companies. and when does a search it is the one most commonly associated the 44 Russian cartridge.

The no. 3 sales just alone to Russia were around double what was the total production of the No. 1 double action, let alone all the other counties and civilian sales the No. 3 was sold to.

The No.1 was AKA the Frontier but was never known as the Russian model the No. 3 was.

I guess we can disagree what S@W's revolver chambered in 44 S@W Russian was or is the most famous.

And we can parse words over what framed S@W Russian in DAO means when talking about revolvers or did you really mean the famed .44 S@W Russian cartridge.

But it is winter and this helps the time go buy.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Your right you never said the no. 3

You said

While most were pocket revolvers the famed S&W Russian in DAO was also a top break.

The No. 3 Russian model/Schofield was/is the most well know and the most produced and the one that is copied today by a couple of companies. and when does a search it is the one most commonly associated the 44 Russian cartridge.

The no. 3 sales just alone to Russia were around double what was the total production of the No. 1 double action, let alone all the other counties and civilian sales the No. 3 was sold to.

The No.1 was AKA the Frontier but was never known as the Russian model the No. 3 was.

I guess we can disagree what S@W's revolver chambered in 44 S@W Russian was or is the most famous.

And we can parse words over what framed S@W Russian in DAO means when talking about revolvers or did you really mean the famed .44 S@W Russian cartridge.

But it is winter and this helps the time go buy.
How many times do I have to repeat I never said number three, and S&W DID make a DA in 44 Russian top break. I have already proven that, there are numerous DAO original top breaks in 44 out there from the period they were made. I also never said hammerless, even though there was no striker fired revolvers in that period of time. The DAO only models were bobbed hammers, just like my model 64 has a bobbed hammer, and is DAO.

I did mean the famous 44 Russian cartridge, you can think whatever you want. No different than if I had said the famed 45 colt, or famed 44-40, or this one should really get your goat the famed 38 Special. Just admit it, you posted misinformation like you usually do. Now you are trying to put it off on my by putting words in my mouth, or claiming I meant something I did not say. The joke is on you.
 
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WalkingWolf

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I couldn’t make it out. I thought he was trolling for NAZI’s.
I don't think so, he just does not know what he is talking about.

Back on topic, the comic in the OP was Gunsmoke, also a famous TV show. TV westerns brought demand for single action revolvers in the TV western age. It had nothing to do with the weakness of DA revolvers with, or without swing out cylinders at that period. It was enough for Colt to bring back their production of the single action. Most revolvers at that time were probably on the hip of police officers, as conceal carry had not come to age yet, and most firearms owned by the public were sport, or hunting arms. The famous twelve gauge probably the most popular long arm of the time.

The 357 had been developed before the age of TV, and it was chambered in the S&W registered magnum, many still being shot today. General Patton carried one of these RM's occasionally during WW2, as well as a engraved Colt SA. What became the model 27 was the gun actually built for magnum cartridge, not a Single Action. The 44 magnum revolver was also introduced in a double action revolver. This was all done in the period of time leading up to TV westerns, and already the age of B western movies. Movies, and TV, let alone comic books were very far from factual, and anybody who would walk away believing they were factual is a fool.

It is true that the SA was very popular, but more popular is debatable, among who? With police officers? Nope. With people carrying a pocket pistol? NO. They were mostly popular with people who loved westerns, they are still popular today, but not the carry pistol of choice. I carry single action revolvers for defense, and if anybody was going to bolster that claim it would be me, but the claim is bovine scatology. DA revolvers were built strong for the cartridges they were designed for at the turn of the century, and they only got better as they progressed. That is why so many are still in use today.

Again as far as strength both the DA, and the SA have similar parts. At the period of S&W, and similar break tops the guns were made in both DA, and SA the weakness on those revolvers was in the same place, and not affected by action which limited them from heavy loads. Boutique ammo manufacturers like Buffalo Bore give a warning on some of their ammo NOT to be used with break top revolvers.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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How many times do I have to repeat I never said number three, and S&W DID make a DA in 44 Russian top break. .
I guess you missed the first line of the reply you quoted.

Your right you never said the no. 3

And I did mention the model of S@W double action top break they chambered in the 44 Russian cartridge.

So I guess even when one agrees with you they don't.
 
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WalkingWolf

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I guess you missed the first line of the reply you quoted.

Your right you never said the no. 3

And I did mention the model of S@W double action top break they chambered in the 44 Russian cartridge.

So I guess even when one agrees with you they don't.
Yet you continued with the same babbling. You have some issues, don't project them on others.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Single action production was stopped in 1941.

At the beginning of World War II, Colt ceased production of the Single Action Army revolver to devote more time to filling orders for the war. When the war ended, no plans were made to revive the Single Action Army revolver as the design was seen as obsolete. However the advent of television and Western themed movies created customer demand for the revolver, so Colt resumed manufacture in 1956 with the Second Generation line of Single Action Army revolvers

Double action revolver production continue through and after the war.

Bill Ruger saw the need and brought out the single six, bear cat and the black Hawk models to meet the demand then colt started up its production of single actions again.

Now many fine revolvers of both kinds are available from 22rf to the most powerful hand gun calibers along with some rifle rounds.
 

WalkingWolf

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Single action production was stopped in 1941.

At the beginning of World War II, Colt ceased production of the Single Action Army revolver to devote more time to filling orders for the war. When the war ended, no plans were made to revive the Single Action Army revolver as the design was seen as obsolete. However the advent of television and Western themed movies created customer demand for the revolver, so Colt resumed manufacture in 1956 with the Second Generation line of Single Action Army revolvers

Double action revolver production continue through and after the war.

Bill Ruger saw the need and brought out the single six, bear cat and the black Hawk models to meet the demand then colt started up its production of single actions again.

Now many fine revolvers of both kinds are available from 22rf to the most powerful hand gun calibers along with some rifle rounds.
And when was the era of TV westerns, and B western movies? When Bill Ruger started production of his revolvers he started them with SA revolvers, S&W and Colt already had the police market. They were marketed to the western fans, in fact it was SASS that brought about the Ruger Vaquero. Single action revolvers are still very popular today, the most popular? NO not by a long shot, but it has nothing to do with the strength or weakness of the design. It has mostly to do with the western silver screen, and some literature.

Before the turn of the century, and the age of nickle movies it was due to monetary reasons. People kept what worked, they usually only owned one handgun if they owned any at all. Older revolvers cost less, and older revolvers at the time were mostly single action. Cap, and Ball revolvers were still carried into the 20th century that was not due to them being popular at the time, or their strength. When you get into strength of a handgun revolvers do not enter into it, that is where the break open, and bolt action shine use for silhouette shooting. Which on the popularity scale is really low, but they are strong.

To put it all into two words John Wayne.

Maybe this will help you figure it out. This is an image from Ruger advertising. https://ruger.com/products/vaquero/overview.html

 
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Grapeshot

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From the sublime to substandard with substantial personal remarks. No submariners were physically injured however.

Think this thread has exceeded its usefulness.

Locked.
 
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