Taking away troops' guns would reduce suicides, study finds

[Tricorn]

Taking away troops' guns would reduce suicides, study finds
By: Mackenzie Wolf, MilitaryTimes
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2...09.2017&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

 

[WalkingWolf]

People who want to end their own life are not limited to guns.

 

[Grapeshot]

There are a myriad other ways to commit suicide.

Medications, vehicles, bridges, etc, etc. Someone determined to commit suicide (the ultimate selfish act) will not be stopped.

 

[MamaLiberty]

Someone determined to commit suicide (the ultimate selfish act) will not be stopped.

Oh really? I'm sorry, Grapeshot, but how do you presume to judge others that way? Have you ever lived with irreversible physical disabilities, usually along with intractable pain? The medical system, especially with the ever increasing war on everything that might make someone more comfortable... makes relieving that suffering almost impossible - especially for those who don't have rooms full of (other people's) money.

Suicide is terrible, destructive to the peace and joy of others, and there really should be much better alternatives for anyone... but all too often there are not. A "life" of agony and hopelessness should not be the only option for the "unselfish." Why must humans suffer so much? Because you think it is "selfish" not to?

 

[DeSchaine]

There are always alternatives. It all depends on how badly a person wants to actually get help and how much they think about their friends and family. So yes, Grapeshot is right. It is the ultimate act of selfishness.

 

[MamaLiberty]

There are always alternatives. It all depends on how badly a person wants to actually get help and how much they think about their friends and family. So yes, Grapeshot is right. It is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Oh really? And you KNOW this how? You can't actually speak for anyone else. You can only speak for yourself. And I sincerely hope you don't have to learn the truth from your own suffering. Ever watch someone die, by inches, from inoperable, untreatable cancer, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, diabetic neuropathy... just to name a very few? I have... 14 years in hospice nursing.

 

[Thundar]

You know what group is most likely to commit suicide with a gun? Police and retired police officers. If we want them to be safe, maybe we should take away their guns (at least while they are "off duty"):shocker:

suicide rates in Canada are about the same as the US, but lots less guns, lots more hanging suicides. Maybe we should encourage Canadians to enact commonsense rope laws.::idea:

To be clear, suicide is a very serious mental health problem. My above comments were to illustrate the absurdity of the gun grabber solutions, not to make fun of those contemplating suicide. For our troops the solution is not to take away their guns, the solution is to get the mental health support that they need in a timely fashion.

 

[MamaLiberty]

the solution is to get the mental health support that they need in a timely fashion.

Maybe the solution is not to keep sending them around the world to kill people and destroy their property. Maybe they wouldn't have so many "mental health" problems if they were not dealing with wholesale murder and destruction.

 

[Thundar]

Maybe the solution is not to keep sending them around the world to kill people and destroy their property. Maybe they wouldn't have so many "mental health" problems if they were not dealing with wholesale murder and destruction.

Well I was talking about the need to help those vets who have mental health problems, instead of punishing them by taking away their rights. The thread is not about US foreign policy.

Your post, which accuses vets of wholesale murder is extremely insulting to all servicemen and veterans. US servicemen and veterans are not war criminals. US forces go to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

 

[color of law]

Oh really? I'm sorry, Grapeshot, but how do you presume to judge others that way? Have you ever lived with irreversible physical disabilities, usually along with intractable pain? The medical system, especially with the ever increasing war on everything that might make someone more comfortable... makes relieving that suffering almost impossible - especially for those who don't have rooms full of (other people's) money.

Suicide is terrible, destructive to the peace and joy of others, and there really should be much better alternatives for anyone... but all too often there are not. A "life" of agony and hopelessness should not be the only option for the "unselfish." Why must humans suffer so much? Because you think it is "selfish" not to?

I cannot speak for grapeshot, but I don't think he was referring to physical pain. I believe he is referring to mental pain. The brain cannot feel physical pain. There is a difference.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

Oh really? ........ Have you ever lived with irreversible physical disabilities, usually along with intractable pain? The medical system, especially with the ever increasing war on everything that might make someone more comfortable... makes relieving that suffering almost impossible - especially for those who don't have rooms full of (other people's) money. "OPIOIDS?"

Suicide is terrible.......and there really should be much better alternatives for anyone... but all too often there are not. A "life" of agony and hopelessness should not be the only option for the "unselfish." Why must humans suffer so much? Because you think it is "selfish" not to?

Yeppers. I got that. I have a TBI that I got in the Military. I am in the 80% Club. 80% of the people with my affliction suicide. I will not. The "medical system" tried to kill me with opioids, even to the point of denying me the med for about ten days each quarter. Withdrawal is fun. I have nothing for your so called "pain doctors".

There are always alternatives. It all depends on how badly a person wants to actually get help and how much they think about their friends and family. So yes, Grapeshot is right. It is the ultimate act of selfishness.

There are ALWAYS alternatives. It depends upon the strength of the afflicted.

Oh really? And you KNOW this how? You can't actually speak for anyone else. You can only speak for yourself. ...? I have... 14 years in hospice nursing.

I can speak only for myself although I have observed friends. I have a headache, a migraine variant, constant little sucker. All day, all nite headache since 1997, so yeah, twenty years worth.

Maybe the solution is not to keep sending them around the world to kill people and destroy their property. Maybe they wouldn't have so many "mental health" problems if they were not dealing with wholesale murder and destruction.

Ohh my. I am a Soldier and have been for my entire life. I have served under good .gove and .govs that hated me, but I served my Country, not an individual. If you do not want us deployed, do a better job of hiring the representatives that can deal in diplomacy, and not bullets. My violence is always, always the answer. But my violence only comes after those who "negotiate" fail. Fix that and I won't have to fight.

 

[Grapeshot]

Oh really? I'm sorry, Grapeshot, but how do you presume to judge others that way? Have you ever lived with irreversible physical disabilities, usually along with intractable pain? The medical system, especially with the ever increasing war on everything that might make someone more comfortable... makes relieving that suffering almost impossible - especially for those who don't have rooms full of (other people's) money.

Suicide is terrible, destructive to the peace and joy of others, and there really should be much better alternatives for anyone... but all too often there are not. A "life" of agony and hopelessness should not be the only option for the "unselfish." Why must humans suffer so much? Because you think it is "selfish" not to?

I cannot speak for grapeshot, but I don't think he was referring to physical pain. I believe he is referring to mental pain. The brain cannot feel physical pain. There is a difference.

I definitely was not judging - I was discussing.

Physical pain and mental pain/suffering often go hand in hand.

I don't often talk about my personal medical history, but I will this one time just so you know that I have been there, done that in a number of instances.

4 heart attacks - one chamber dead, 4 courses of radiation treatments - 2 per day for 2 wk each, chemotherapy, 4 major abdominal surgeries - one required healing from the inside out, pacemaker/defibulator. Presume that allows me to discuss the issue

I would never want to saddle my loved ones with the burden of my suicide. We are all selfish to some degree. I am NOT that selfish.

BTW - I enjoy life very much and my cancer is in remission. YATA HEY!

 

[WalkingWolf]

I definitely was not judging - I was discussing.

Physical pain and mental pain/suffering often go hand in hand.

I don't often talk about my personal medical history, but I will this one time just so you know that I have been there, done that in a number of instances.

4 heart attacks - one chamber dead, 4 courses of radiation treatments - 2 per day for 2 wk each, chemotherapy, 4 major abdominal surgeries - one required healing from the inside out, pacemaker/defibulator. Presume that allows me to discuss the issue

I would never want to saddle my loved ones with the burden of my suicide. We are all selfish to some degree. I am NOT that selfish.

BTW - I enjoy life very much and my cancer is in remission. YATA HEY!

Besides if we, have the same heart problems, wanted to end the pain all we have to do is refuse treatment. I died once from a heart attack, and then brought back. Actually the dying part was very peaceful, the cure is what hurt like hell.

Not sure that would make much difference for a family's grief though. Losing someone is still losing someone.

 

[FBrinson]

Besides if we, have the same heart problems, wanted to end the pain all we have to do is refuse treatment. I died once from a heart attack, and then brought back. Actually the dying part was very peaceful, the cure is what hurt like hell.

Not sure that would make much difference for a family's grief though. Losing someone is still losing someone.

I certainly hope you have received adequate curing and your journey through life is extended enough to bring you the joys and rewards you may seek. Same to Dale. To a good life.... cheers!

 

[color of law]

First off, none of us get out alive. I'm coming upon my ninth anniversary for my heart attack, one stent, causing me to quit smoking cold turkey. And just recently had two kidney stones removed. A year ago a friend who retired at 65, 6 months later died of brain cancer. I look at it, compared to others, as (me) having an easy life. I have one wish, when I go, that I wake-up dead.

 

[countryclubjoe]

" i do not believe anyone can be perfectly well, who has a brain and a heart".. Longfellow

Everyone wants to die in their sleep, except for those that fear dying in their sleep..

Are we all not killing ourselves in one way or another? Is there really a good way to die?... Does anyone aspire to be the healthiest person in the cemetery?.

Taking ones own life is the highest form of ' individual liberty".. My .02

CCJ

 

[JTHunter2]

There are always alternatives. It all depends on how badly a person wants to actually get help and how much they think about their friends and family. So yes, Grapeshot is right. It is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Suppose there IS no hope? What about a terminal illness that is causing excruciating pain that even the most powerful opioids can't touch?
"Choices"? Sure, but no good ones.

 

[JoeSparky]

I cannot speak for grapeshot, but I don't think he was referring to physical pain. I believe he is referring to mental pain. The brain cannot feel physical pain. There is a difference.

True the brain itself does not have pain receptors but SINCE the brain is the organ our bodies use in the PERCEPTION OF PAIN it seems to me that your "the brain cannot feel physical pain" is disingenuous in this context and discussion.

Individuals suffering chronic pain regardless of what they are using to control the intensity of the percieved pain can and do have negative results affecting them physiologically and psychologically.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Reading this interesting thread calls to mind the venerable saying, don't judge a person until you walk in their shoes...

Mamaliberty surely got it right... Again I say, choosing how we depart this earth is the highest form of " individual liberty"..

My .02
CCJ

 

[countryclubjoe]

First off, none of us get out alive. I'm coming upon my ninth anniversary for my heart attack, one stent, causing me to quit smoking cold turkey. And just recently had two kidney stones removed. A year ago a friend who retired at 65, 6 months later died of brain cancer. I look at it, compared to others, as (me) having an easy life. I have one wish, when I go, that I wake-up dead.

" When you part from your friend, you grieve not; for that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain" Khalil Gilbran

Same thing happened unto me.. My older brother retired at 60 three years past, very well to do and had great plans for his free-time..
While watching a football game in his man-cave, three months into retirement life a " brain aneurysm".. ended everything..

" Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die tomorrow" James Dean

CCJ