This is why you should CC and not OC

[g21sfpistol]

OC has been proven to the satisfaction of many as being an effective deterent - read the writing on the wall, sir.

You belabor the point and take on the trappings of a provocateur. Your choice of how you carry is just that - your choice - but you can't seem to leave it there. Suggest you stop while you are ahead.

This is first and foremost a site dedicated to normalizing OC as we go about our everyday lives. Many here have extensive knowledge and experience - don't insult us.

it has been proven to the satisfaction of many? prove it then? has a criminal came up and told you that? I'm being told I'm living in lala land because I'm drinking some cool aid. sounds to me you are drinking some OC cool aid all because a few other agree with you. why stop? because I'm bringing some logic into a conversation and you don't like it?

 

[DaveT319]

Cops sometimes get attacked because they are in a position of authority, not because they have a visible weapon.

 

[Gallowmere]

a few years ago a local cop was cracked in the back of the head by someone trying to take his gun. and there was 2 cops present. so explain that. no where did i say they were being mugged all around the country. i simply stated it does happen.

you are saying my speculating does nothing but bring me comfort while you are speculating in the same sentence. unless they have someone posted on every individual in the bank they end up on the reaction end. they can watch you in a group but action is faster than reaction.split seconds can mean life and death and when i have the plan in my head to draw he does not know what I'm thinking. IF you have taken any credible training in self defense you would have been told action IS faster then reaction.

You are correct on the last part. Here's the problem though: in such a scenario as what happened to that officer, if someone comes at you from behind and gets the drop on you, you're screwed no matter how you are carrying. This is especially true if the person actually wants your life, and not just your wallet. The problem is that you make the statement that an OCer is more likely to be such a target...and you provide no evidence for it, other than a single anecdote that likely had nothing to do with the weapon at all. If someone's batshit enough to jump a cop with two other cops present, it wasn't because the cop had the gun visible. It's because the guy had a deathwish.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Action is indeed faster than reaction.
Someone pulls a firearm and begins robbing a bank, guess who's acted first?
Someone pulls their concealed firearm in response to that action, guess who's doing the reacting?
or
Someone could draw from an openly carried holster, guess who's draw times are going to be faster, concealed or open?

Petty criminals intent of robbing a bank for their next score aren't known for being very observant, there are too many cases of such guys robbing restaurants filled with uniformed cops, walking past police cars to attempt robberies, or just brushing past uniformed cops in bank lines to present robbery notes for me to believe that most criminals are master minds of any sort. They're goldbricks, not Goldfingers.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Just as fast from CC? That's not even funny.

Being the first taken out is another of the great OC urban myths. You may choose to surprise the BG who enters with tunnel vision and one thing on his mind = get the money and get out with his life intact. Your scenerio, if and when it ever happens, will result in an extremely low ratio - somewhat like .00001%. Frankly, I prefer my odds to your scare tactics.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/t...cle_511c090a-33c6-534f-9eab-41bc05fd49c8.html

when and if it happens? a lot of you talk like you prepare for anything and everything, yet you are giving me the when and if excuse. it was nothing but an example. yet the same thing can happen in a mall or theater. so i guess the next time a situation like that happens, maybe you should be on here saying "don't worry gents, you have a .000001% chance of that happening to you" have that mentality. ill use some of my military training and prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I've been in situations where i have been shot at and have had tunnel vision. things don't always go as planned. go with your odds and ill go with my experience, or what you would call my "scare tactic"

 

[Grapeshot]

a few years ago a local cop was cracked in the back of the head by someone trying to take his gun. and there was 2 cops present. so explain that. no where did i say they were being mugged all around the country. i simply stated it does happen.

you are saying my speculating does nothing but bring me comfort while you are speculating in the same sentence. unless they have someone posted on every individual in the bank they end up on the reaction end. they can watch you in a group but action is faster than reaction.split seconds can mean life and death and when i have the plan in my head to draw he does not know what I'm thinking. IF you have taken any credible training in self defense you would have been told action IS faster then reaction.

You have earned through due diligence the coveted T. Would you care to roll on and add the rest?

A LEO being attacked has nothing to do with our OCing.

Action beats reaction................if nothing stands in the way, like laying on the floor, an outer garment, or your 10 yo daughter.

How many of these civilian defense courses have you taught? How many potentially life altering scenerios have you experienced as a civilian? What makes you an expert in this arena?

 

[g21sfpistol]

Action is indeed faster than reaction.
Someone pulls a firearm and begins robbing a bank, guess who's acted first?
Someone pulls their concealed firearm in response to that action, guess who'd doing the reacting?

you missed my point completely. the robber is reacting to my reaction. counter ambush boss. good try though.

 

[Grapeshot]

you missed my point completely. the robber is reacting to my reaction. counter ambush boss. good try though.

Counter ambush term is miss applied.

No you missed the point............unless you are illegally employing deadly force in advance of any real threat.

 

[g21sfpistol]

You have earned through due diligence the coveted T. Would you care to roll on and add the rest?

A LEO being attacked has nothing to do with our OCing.

Action beats reaction................if nothing stands in the way, like laying on the floor, an outer garment, or your 10 yo daughter.

How many of these civilian defense courses have you taught? How many potentially life altering scenerios have you experienced as a civilian? What makes you an expert in this arena?

never said i was an expert. heck even the experts rant experts and they have personally told me that. they don't encounter all these senerios, yet they are teaching. we go off of what others have experienced and thats all you can go off of. every situation is different. action does beat reaction. can you react at all if you are going to be the first target in the bank because you are OCing? probably not. my reaction to being ambushed is my counter ambush tactic. CCing. thats if i decide to react depending on whats going on.

 

[WalkingWolf]

you missed my point completely. the robber is reacting to my reaction. counter ambush boss. good try though.

YOU sir have no business with a firearm! You are a bad incident waiting to happen. You carry so you can shoot somebody, that makes you dangerous to everybody.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Well let take a look at the bold. So YOU pull your gun on somebody you think has you pegged without just cause? Because unless you are justified to use deadly force you cannot legally point the barrel of your gun at someone. And if you have just cause the bad guy ALREADY HAS THE DROP ON YOU.

You reach for your gun because you feel froggy with a LAC that is OCing you probably will become a statistic. This is the reason the Brady bunch site lists so many instances of abuse by concealed carriers but I have not seen one by a open carrier. It is that superman complex that some of the CC crowd has that puts a bad light on carry.

ok what? i guess we are assuming you are being held at gun point or knife point. I'm not going to pull my gun on a dude who has a gun in the holster. is a holstered gun a threat to you?

 

[scott58dh]

0C or CC,,, THAT is The Question !

IMHO, the key point being missed here is this,,,

***Situational Awareness*** :exclaim:
by Mas Ayoob,,, >>> http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2013/12/situational-awareness-tactics-to-spot-threats/

If you = (the general populace) are just going through life willy nilly without the slightest clue as to what's happnen' in your indirect &/or direct presence, then ya' better wake up.

Do NOT Allow yourself to become a Victim, be ProActive in the defense of yourself & Family.

Aside from that, I consider OC/CC to be the same as Chocolate or Vanilla, whatever works for ya', but at least Do Something :exclaim:

 

[g21sfpistol]

YOU sir have no business with a firearm! You are a bad incident waiting to happen. You carry so you can shoot somebody, that makes you dangerous to everybody.

haha how so? or are you just try to make me out to be bad by highlighting ambush? if someone is pointing a gun at you or threading you with a gun or knife whats your response? defend yourself? you were ambushed or caught off guard right? your decision is a counter ambush because you catch them off guard if you decide to react.

 

[Gallowmere]

never said i was an expert. heck even the experts rant experts and they have personally told me that. they don't encounter all these senerios, yet they are teaching. we go off of what others have experienced and thats all you can go off of. every situation is different. action does beat reaction. can you react at all if you are going to be the first target in the bank because you are OCing? probably not. my reaction to being ambushed is my counter ambush tactic. CCing. thats if i decide to react depending on whats going on.

Let's assume for a second that your point had any validity. Let's assume that a person intent on robbing a bank can clearly see the hip of every person as they go in (because if they are actually casing the joint from outside for a while, they'll likely just wait until an OCer has come and gone). You know what this does? It just proves that everyone who carries should OC. Let's say you're a bank robber. You bust in, you see five or so people with guns on their hips. Do you try to rack up several life sentences worth of charges, while risking getting shot in the process, or do you just abort?

 

[WalkingWolf]

haha how so? or are you just try to make me out to be bad by highlighting ambush? if someone is pointing a gun at you or threading you with a gun or knife whats your response? defend yourself? you were ambushed or caught off guard right? your decision is a counter ambush because you catch them off guard if you decide to react.

YOU are bad, you are dangerous. You have made it clear you want to play superhero. NO person can get the drop on a person that is attacking or threatening them. The very word ambush shows that YOU are likely to pull a gun on someone because you want to play bad a$$. If someone pulls a knife or gun on you, and it is loaded you are screwed most likely. I worry that one of my family members will become a victim to dangerous people like you.

[video=youtube;x_VnY0GuusQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x_VnY0GuusQ[/video]Is this YOU?

 

[Grapeshot]

never said i was an expert. heck even the experts rant experts and they have personally told me that. they don't encounter all these senerios, yet they are teaching. we go off of what others have experienced and thats all you can go off of. every situation is different. action does beat reaction. can you react at all if you are going to be the first target in the bank because you are OCing? probably not. my reaction to being ambushed is my counter ambush tactic. CCing. thats if i decide to react depending on whats going on.

You wiggle too much and offer little of substance in your prolonged attack on OC.

How many persons have you shot/stopped in defense of yourself while CCing?

I can tell you exactly how many I have not had to shoot while OCing.......precisely all of them.

No lack of opportunity either. Most of the time the BG walked away quickly. I have gassed 'em, rolled on the ground with 'em and otherwise been in disagreeable circumstances, but to clarify in each of these last noted episodes, I was not armed with a gun - they did however, have a weapon. I didn't win by stealth, but by superior training, determination and luck.

 

[g21sfpistol]

Let's assume for a second that your point had any validity. Let's assume that a person intent on robbing a bank can clearly see the hip of every person as they go in (because if they are actually casing the joint from outside for a while, they'll likely just wait until an OCer has come and gone). You know what this does? It just proves that everyone who carries should OC. Let's say you're a bank robber. You bust in, you see five or so people with guns on their hips. Do you try to rack up several life sentences worth of charges, while risking getting shot in the process, or do you just abort?

i guess i don't understand where you are going with this. the north hollywood shootout guys decided to duke it out with a bunch of cops. of course they were high. you don't know who's on what anymore. they could choose to martyr themselves thinking they are going to jail. i don't know man I'm not a mind reader. when someone is pointing a gun at you do you want to wait to draw your gun just because they froze and saw your gun? hoping they will just give up at that moment? its your choice.

 

[Bernymac]

when someone is pointing a gun at you do you want to wait to draw your gun just because they froze and saw your gun? hoping they will just give up at that moment? its your choice.

when someone is pointing a gun at you, do you want to wait to draw your gun from concealment hoping that you can beat them before they can pull the trigger? Hoping that they will give up at the moment they see your gun being pulled out of its concealment? It's your choice.

 

[g21sfpistol]

YOU are bad, you are dangerous. You have made it clear you want to play superhero. NO person can get the drop on a person that is attacking or threatening them. The very word ambush shows that YOU are likely to pull a gun on someone because you want to play bad a$$. If someone pulls a knife or gun on you, and it is loaded you are screwed most likely. I worry that one of my family members will become a victim to dangerous people like you.

[video=youtube;x_VnY0GuusQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x_VnY0GuusQ[/video]Is this YOU?

dude. ambush is nothing but terminology. you are trying to be little me cause you can't argue against my point. rob pincus uses the terminology "counter ambush" and he is one of the top guys in the industry. i don't just pull my gun on random people. I'm not playing bad a$$ i carry for defensive purposes. i would never pull my gun unless me or other are in a life threatening situation.

ambush is defined by attacking by surprise. so would you rather i say attack by surprise? would it make you feel better? because it means the same thing dude.

 

[g21sfpistol]

when someone is pointing a gun at you, do you want to wait to draw your gun from concealment hoping that you can beat them before they can pull the trigger? Hoping that they will give up at the moment they see your gun being pulled out of its concealment? It's your choice.

action is faster than reaction. i train to "get off the x" and draw at the same time. now not only do they have to react but they also have to track my movement.