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Told I cannot OC in an Englewood Walmart

blcfalcon1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Littleton, Colorado, United States
the same thing happened to me at the Walmart on Wadsworth and 6th. I was told by the greeter i couldnt OC in the store. Responded by telling him of the corporate policy yada yada yada...i OCd there plenty of times without issue yada yada yada...then i was told to wait for the manager. She tells me i couldnt OC in the store and i repeated what i told the greeter. She asks me if i had a CCW. I told her i did then she tells the greeter theres nothing they can do. So they get someone to escort me to the sporting goods section where i bought my ammo...a trip that would take me 5 mins turned to 30 because i had to wait for the manager...
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Just a guess here but....

It seems that certain Walmart employees are confusing Walmart's prohibition of EMPLOYEES being armed on the premises and projecting that onto CUSTOMERS!
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
I didn't make it to the Englewood wally world but I did OC while out and about today which included about and hour and a half of shopping at the one off I-70 and Tower.

Howdy Beau!
Hey.......... That's the area I shop in frequently!
Maybe we should meet up sometime at the sub shop nearby! They have some real good fare!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
the same thing happened to me at the Walmart on Wadsworth and 6th. I was told by the greeter i couldnt OC in the store. Responded by telling him of the corporate policy yada yada yada...i OCd there plenty of times without issue yada yada yada...then i was told to wait for the manager. She tells me i couldnt OC in the store and i repeated what i told the greeter. She asks me if i had a CCW. I told her i did then she tells the greeter theres nothing they can do. So they get someone to escort me to the sporting goods section where i bought my ammo...a trip that would take me 5 mins turned to 30 because i had to wait for the manager...

Howdy Pard!
That delay, restriction on your freedom of movement, puts them perilously close to false arrest/unlawful detention.
30 minutes is excessive, and I'd be apt to mention that to the folks at their corporate offices. Politely stated, of course.
But they surely don't want a charge of unlawful detention or false arrest making the news either.

Just an observation on my part.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Anyone happen to find the letter yet.

Howdy Pard!
I just spent like 30 minutes talking with a corporate clone at Walmart. She stated that the overall policy is for Walmart stores to follow state laws regarding carry. However, a particular store may choose to do their own thing, and prohibit firearms if they so choose. I informed that person that failure to post "No Firearms" at the entrance violates Colorado Revised Statutes that clearly state such prohibition must be posted at the entrances.

The person I spoke with additionally stated there many have been an incident in that store that led to their decision to prohibit carry in their location. I quoted from the OP regarding the demeanor of Andrew and told her it sounded to me like that particular individual had his own particular bias against the carry of a handgun in his little fiefdom, rather than a manager upholding a stated policy.

There is much more that went on, but she told me that they'd look into the situation and if necessary for compliance, would see that the store should post their firearms policy on the front door. I told her I'd encourage them to do that, and witness how many shoppers boycott their store because of that restriction. I explained to her that Colorado is full of folks who regard their 2a rights as sacred, and such infringement will drive a good number of customers to other retailers. I told her I like the idea because the best message they can get in terms of an ambiguous policy is a hit to the bottom line!

Anyhow, I am gonna be late for work, but will try to cover more of my conversation later.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Lokster

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
127
Location
Unincorporated Jefferson County
I laughed out loud at this and woke up my infant daughter you SOB. Stop being funny!

:mad:

Sorry, but that's a promise I'm just not willing to make, however I am happy to know that someone has a brilliant sense of humor around here!:banana:

Not much to update the thread with yet. So far I've sent off a few emails, but haven't received any sort of response. Now I'll begin calling and leaving some messages I suspect, in hopes that someone will have the decency to respond to my inquiry.

From what you've heard M-Taliesin, it sounds like a change of their corporate policy.
 
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1whjYLKDXW

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Denver Area
Check This Out! Laughed my A$$ off!

So I live in Englewood, and they have generally been pretty good about firearms...but I see our dreadful City Council has passed new regulations since last I looked...basically all parks, public building are banned from OC....

Here's the funny part....from the Englewood Municipal Code.

"7-6C-6: - Prohibition on the Open Carrying of Firearms.

The open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the following areas within the City of Englewood except for on-duty Police Department personnel.

A.
CityCenter, excluding the Alexan Apartment Complex and the Wal-Mart property"

Even the City says you can OC on Walmart property!

Have a great day!
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
So I live in Englewood, and they have generally been pretty good about firearms...but I see our dreadful City Council has passed new regulations since last I looked...basically all parks, public building are banned from OC....

Here's the funny part....from the Englewood Municipal Code.

"7-6C-6: - Prohibition on the Open Carrying of Firearms.

The open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the following areas within the City of Englewood except for on-duty Police Department personnel.

A.
CityCenter, excluding the Alexan Apartment Complex and the Wal-Mart property"

Even the City says you can OC on Walmart property!

Have a great day!

How does that work with pre-emption laws?

Can you personally hold the city council responsiable (as an accomplice) if you get shot by someone while in one of these restricted areas as they contributed to you getting shot by not allowing you to protect yourself?

Do you still have to pay city taxes since they are restricting you from entering the parks and public buildings? You shouldn't be taxed on a place they won't allow you to go.
 

1whjYLKDXW

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Denver Area
Well...

How does that work with pre-emption laws?

Can you personally hold the city council responsiable (as an accomplice) if you get shot by someone while in one of these restricted areas as they contributed to you getting shot by not allowing you to protect yourself?

Do you still have to pay city taxes since they are restricting you from entering the parks and public buildings? You shouldn't be taxed on a place they won't allow you to go.

Preemption does not apply as CO statute does allow local municipalities to ban in certain areas of the city provided it is posted. I know that the parks (at least by me) and all city buildings are posted with "No Open Carry" signs...Denver proper is a whole different beast...no OC anywhere...just hasn't been challenged. I don't have $$$ or time to do it...

Assuming the law was created by council in their ex-offico capacity they would be immune from being personally responsible...though I suppose you could sue the City in some type of civil proceeding.

Taxes pay for far more than buildings, so I don't think I'd win that argument. Married adults with no kids still pay municipal taxes for schools...so...

"CRS 29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area."

"Example of a Municipal Open Carry ban The City of Castle Rock has an open carry ban that extends to nearly every city-owned location. Castle Rock City Ordinance 9.04.165 reads:

It is unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, to openly carry a firearm in any Town-owned or -operated building, or on any Town-owned or -operated park, recreation area or property upon which the Town Manager has directed to be posted a notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited. (Ord. 2003-41 §1, 2003)"
 
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DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Preemption does not apply as CO statute does allow local municipalities to ban in certain areas of the city provided it is posted. I know that the parks (at least by me) and all city buildings are posted with "No Open Carry" signs...Denver proper is a whole different beast...no OC anywhere...just hasn't been challenged. I don't have $$$ or time to do it...

Assuming the law was created by council in their ex-offico capacity they would be immune from being personally responsible...though I suppose you could sue the City in some type of civil proceeding.

Taxes pay for far more than buildings, so I don't think I'd win that argument. Married adults with no kids still pay municipal taxes for schools...so...

"CRS 29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.

A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area."

"Example of a Municipal Open Carry ban The City of Castle Rock has an open carry ban that extends to nearly every city-owned location. Castle Rock City Ordinance 9.04.165 reads:

It is unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, to openly carry a firearm in any Town-owned or -operated building, or on any Town-owned or -operated park, recreation area or property upon which the Town Manager has directed to be posted a notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited. (Ord. 2003-41 §1, 2003)"

I guess my questions sounded real, I was actually being sarcastic about how stupid the signs and so called protection laws are. It is nice to post the areas criminals will be given enough time to get a high body count before the police show up. It makes it easier for them to pick spots they can make national news with...hmmmm the park or the school?

I blame the idiots that voted for these idiots that make these laws.
 

1whjYLKDXW

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Denver Area
I guess my questions sounded real, I was actually being sarcastic about how stupid the signs and so called protection laws are. It is nice to post the areas criminals will be given enough time to get a high body count before the police show up. It makes it easier for them to pick spots they can make national news with...hmmmm the park or the school?

I blame the idiots that voted for these idiots that make these laws.


Noted! My sarcasm detector is as good as my gaydar...been in some weird situations! :)

I do agree with you...at least they allow CC in most of those places...but it would be nice to OC...

As far as the idiots who vote for the idiots....couldn't agree more...the mayor was my HS football coach some years ago...when Columbine happened I was in his gym class running the mile...then all the admins wanted EVERYONE in the Stadium Bowl...the street is at the top of the stadium at E-Wood High...not such a good place to be if something tragic were to happen...radio reports at the time said the killers were going school to school...so I left...he tried to make me stay...but that didn't happen. Just a small example of the approach people have that make these kinds of laws.
 

Beau

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
Hmmmmm.

First off, MT it would be great to meet up sometime. My schedule is pretty erratic though. I never know exactly when I'll be in town until I decide to go. I think an Aurora meet needs to be planned.

Secondly, you posted this.
I informed that person that failure to post "No Firearms" at the entrance violates Colorado Revised Statutes that clearly state such prohibition must be posted at the entrances.

My question is what statute does this violate? To my knowledge no firearms signs do not carry the force of law unless they are posted by city/county government to restrict OC in public places.

Third, How could this be enforced in a park?? ,
the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area."
Pretty much everywhere is a public entrance in a park. Unless there is a law requiring everyone to use prescribed entrances I would think a park ban would be unenforceable. At least the first time anyway. After you've been warned it's a whole other story.

Lastly, I think we need to work at getting rid of CRS 29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting.
To top it off it would be great if we could get a bill introduced like the one Indiana passed. The bill basically takes the power to restrict firearms carry away from local government, e.g. parks, trails, government offices etc., away from local government. They absolutely can not enact a law stricter than the states. In fact there is a lawsuit against the city of Evansville, IN because an OC'er was ejected from a public zoo. Another city is refusing to remove their now unlawful laws from the books and they are being sued.

I nominate MT and since9 to draft a bill to submit to our reps.
 

Brass

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
53
Location
Avon, Colorado, USA
I would also like to see like the one Florida passed that fines (out of their own pocket) any city council or local government official that enacts or enforces firearm laws that are beyond what the State does.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Just a guess here but....

It seems that certain Walmart employees are confusing Walmart's prohibition of EMPLOYEES being armed on the premises and projecting that onto CUSTOMERS!

I think you're right. I also think a response like "That restriction applies to employees; not to customers" would be more effective.
 
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