FMJ 911
Regular Member
I still have it, well my Dad does anyway. It's his gun but he allowed me the privilege of carrying it until I got a holster for the 1911.
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What was your introduction to OC?
- Thread starter b0neZ
- Start date
I still have it, well my Dad does anyway. It's his gun but he allowed me the privilege of carrying it until I got a holster for the 1911.
open4years
Regular Member
I was truly given a gift by God. Every single time, that I felt an instinct to turn down a road, there was either a stranded vehicle or a wreck. This happened at least once a day with just my going out to eat.
I was about to walk in a convenience store, but the female employee was pushing against the door. I asked what was wrong and she said she just got robbed a gunpoint. I asked how long ago and she said seconds. I didn't carry then as it was against company policy as I drove their vehicle.
I became disabled and I started carrying a .380 in an ankle holster. But, not everyone on the side of road wants or needs help. I could easily walk up on a drug deal and I would be dead before I could reach the .380. Owning a firearm permit, since the 1970's, I decided that I wanted to help but I also wanted to be able to protect myself.
I still carried the .380, but also a .45 on my right hip in OC style, plus two extra 14 round magazines and two extra for the .380 on the other ankle. Only one police officer had a problem, but it was HIS problem, no mine as I was carrying legally. Karma finally got him as he was later fired. He would blue light me when I was parked behind someone needing help.
He never asked them if they needed help. He would ignore me and go ask them if I stated that I was a LEO. Of course, I never did such, in fact I told everyone that I was not a LEO, but merely somone who wanted to help them. I would say that I carry for my protection.
I did get involved in a chase after 4 armed bank robbers. It is a long story, but suffice it to say that all they had to do was stop their vehicle and unload on me, whle I tried to reach my little .380, on my left ankle. THAT was what prompted an overnight change from CC to OC.
No, I don't chase robbers anymore! But, I will never forget my reasons to OC. I live in a hot climate, I'm slender and I just can't carry what I want to carry and CC. When it gets colder, I do CC. I also CC while wearing shorts and a loose T-shirt. I can easily conceal a .45 with two extra magazines.
I can't recall the company name, but it is either a two or three pouch holster that goes over your underwear and shirt, if you wear a tucked in shirt. I find the loose shirt helps with CC, but I can easily wear just shorts and no one can tell that I'm carrying. Does anyone know the company name? One company came out with it and another one copied the idea. I buy from the original.
Disregad my question as I just went and looked. It is called "Thunderwear." Give it a try, I love them!
Alan
I was about to walk in a convenience store, but the female employee was pushing against the door. I asked what was wrong and she said she just got robbed a gunpoint. I asked how long ago and she said seconds. I didn't carry then as it was against company policy as I drove their vehicle.
I became disabled and I started carrying a .380 in an ankle holster. But, not everyone on the side of road wants or needs help. I could easily walk up on a drug deal and I would be dead before I could reach the .380. Owning a firearm permit, since the 1970's, I decided that I wanted to help but I also wanted to be able to protect myself.
I still carried the .380, but also a .45 on my right hip in OC style, plus two extra 14 round magazines and two extra for the .380 on the other ankle. Only one police officer had a problem, but it was HIS problem, no mine as I was carrying legally. Karma finally got him as he was later fired. He would blue light me when I was parked behind someone needing help.
He never asked them if they needed help. He would ignore me and go ask them if I stated that I was a LEO. Of course, I never did such, in fact I told everyone that I was not a LEO, but merely somone who wanted to help them. I would say that I carry for my protection.
I did get involved in a chase after 4 armed bank robbers. It is a long story, but suffice it to say that all they had to do was stop their vehicle and unload on me, whle I tried to reach my little .380, on my left ankle. THAT was what prompted an overnight change from CC to OC.
No, I don't chase robbers anymore! But, I will never forget my reasons to OC. I live in a hot climate, I'm slender and I just can't carry what I want to carry and CC. When it gets colder, I do CC. I also CC while wearing shorts and a loose T-shirt. I can easily conceal a .45 with two extra magazines.
I can't recall the company name, but it is either a two or three pouch holster that goes over your underwear and shirt, if you wear a tucked in shirt. I find the loose shirt helps with CC, but I can easily wear just shorts and no one can tell that I'm carrying. Does anyone know the company name? One company came out with it and another one copied the idea. I buy from the original.
Disregad my question as I just went and looked. It is called "Thunderwear." Give it a try, I love them!
Alan
utbagpiper
Banned
Another one who has to credit AZ for OC
I missed this thread when it started; glad someone bumped it.
I was raised with guns in Southern Utah. We didn't need them for protection back then, just recreation, hunting, varmint control. And there wasn't much politics involved. The opening weekend of deer hunt was a school holiday. It was not at all uncommon to see rifles or shotguns in the back windows of pickups in the high school parking lot (pre-federal-GFSZ days).
After a couple of years in college in Utah, I moved to the PR of Massachusetts to finish my formal education. I wasn't able to take any guns with me. A brutal and senseless murder of one of my fellow students ,y first year back east by some local "youths" (is the currently acceptable term for such vermin) "playing" the "knock out" game highlighted the need for effective self-defense.
I had an internship in Arizona during summer breaks and during one semester to work on my thesis. Not being a resident, I wasn't eligible for a concealed carry permit, and wasn't too keen on turning over fingerprints and such anyway. But found a few good folks with AZCDL and they educated me as to Arizona being very OC friendly. So I OC'd most everyplace except work and church.
Finished school, moved back to Utah for a good job, and decided I never wanted to see Utah turn into what Massachusetts was. So I got involved in politics. We have a LOT of schools in Utah and the 1000' foot limit on the GFSZ law made legal travel effectively impossible without a permit, so I eventually got a Utah permit. We've also managed to expand the conditions under which a person can legally carry without a permit.
My current carry is about evenly split between CC, casual CC (winter months), and OC: depending on what my mood and needs for the day are. I carry most everywhere except into work or church.
Gotta get Constitutional Carry here in Utah.
Charles
I missed this thread when it started; glad someone bumped it.
I was raised with guns in Southern Utah. We didn't need them for protection back then, just recreation, hunting, varmint control. And there wasn't much politics involved. The opening weekend of deer hunt was a school holiday. It was not at all uncommon to see rifles or shotguns in the back windows of pickups in the high school parking lot (pre-federal-GFSZ days).
After a couple of years in college in Utah, I moved to the PR of Massachusetts to finish my formal education. I wasn't able to take any guns with me. A brutal and senseless murder of one of my fellow students ,y first year back east by some local "youths" (is the currently acceptable term for such vermin) "playing" the "knock out" game highlighted the need for effective self-defense.
I had an internship in Arizona during summer breaks and during one semester to work on my thesis. Not being a resident, I wasn't eligible for a concealed carry permit, and wasn't too keen on turning over fingerprints and such anyway. But found a few good folks with AZCDL and they educated me as to Arizona being very OC friendly. So I OC'd most everyplace except work and church.
Finished school, moved back to Utah for a good job, and decided I never wanted to see Utah turn into what Massachusetts was. So I got involved in politics. We have a LOT of schools in Utah and the 1000' foot limit on the GFSZ law made legal travel effectively impossible without a permit, so I eventually got a Utah permit. We've also managed to expand the conditions under which a person can legally carry without a permit.
My current carry is about evenly split between CC, casual CC (winter months), and OC: depending on what my mood and needs for the day are. I carry most everywhere except into work or church.
Gotta get Constitutional Carry here in Utah.
Charles
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Freedom1Man
Regular Member
I know I snipped it, but until the federal school ban, the High School I was about to start was cool with those who had parking passes leaving their guns in their trucka so long as they stayed in the truck on school grounds. My freshman year was the year the gun ban went into effect. Sad times.
So, on to my question, why do you not carry in church? Personal choice, law, or some other reason?
Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
They passed the GCA when I started High school, before that a gun could be bought almost every business. Hell the local food market sold guns, and ammo. Every single hardware store had a gun case. As the years passed this ended probably because these business did not want the hassle. Growing up I would walk to the hardware store just to ogle the purdy guns. But back then almost every boy owned a pocket knife, and took it to school.
When I was growing up, we played Mumblety-Peg in the Windsor EMS (Omaha, Ne) yard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblety-peg
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travr6
New member
No cool story. I live in ky. Open carry is legal without a permit.
To conceal carry you have to take tests, be fingerprinted, picture taken, pay fees, pay for classes, endure a waiting period, background check, travel to multiple locations, pay renewal fees, fill out forms, register your weapon, etc...
I didn't feel this was constitutional and still don't so I started open carrying.
I have since gotten my id but feel ashamed that I had to do it.
To conceal carry you have to take tests, be fingerprinted, picture taken, pay fees, pay for classes, endure a waiting period, background check, travel to multiple locations, pay renewal fees, fill out forms, register your weapon, etc...
I didn't feel this was constitutional and still don't so I started open carrying.
I have since gotten my id but feel ashamed that I had to do it.
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travr6
New member
I carry this way mostly. It's the most comfortable and best if both worldsHate to see people cutting back on OC because CC has no educational value, but I understand the problem.
We came up with a solution, even named after us = the Virginia tuck. There was a time when we couldn't CC in a place that served alcohol, but we could OC so we improvised - worked too.
CCing with shirt or jacket, one can transition to OC by tucking the garment either between the grip and your side or behind the gun.
The Virginia Tuck
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It's good to live in one of the top 5 pro 2nd amendment states.
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utbagpiper
Banned
Short answer, YES.
Longer answer:
It is legal in Utah to carry into churches unless the church gives notice--through at least one of several different methods--that guns are not welcome in the House of Worship. The church of which I'm a member has elected to give notice and ban guns. So it is illegal for me to carry into the church I attend.
I also feel a personal obligation to sustain those who serve in church leadership positions, even when I don't necessarily agree with them on some policy issue. This is a personal religious obligation. It is amplified due to some local, lay leadership positions in which I have served.
Finally, as a recognized voice in the Utah RKBA community, I feel an obligation to set the example of gun owners being law abiding and respectful of the desires of Churches (and homeowners who are covered by the same section of law). I helped negotiate the deal that allowed churches to "give notice" without putting overt "gun buster" signs on their sacred property, in exchange for the largest and most politically powerful church in the State not supporting a citizen's initiative that would have banned all private guns from all churches and all schools. I feel honor bound to uphold that deal personally.
Save for the above, I would CC to church. I would not OC because I know that my congregation is politically and socially diverse enough that there are those for whom an OC gun would be concerning. I'm ok with others being uncomfortable due to irrational fears in most public places. But at church, all should feel as welcome and comfortable as possible. So I would personally choose to CC rather than OC so as not to give anyone cause--however irrational--to avoid church attendance and participation. This would be one of my attempts to heed Paul's counsel to the Saints in Corinth (1 Corinthians chapters 8 and 10). Plus, I don't have any OC equipment that would go well with my Sunday-go-to-meeting suits.
Charles
Short answer, YES.
Longer answer:
It is legal in Utah to carry into churches unless the church gives notice--through at least one of several different methods--that guns are not welcome in the House of Worship. The church of which I'm a member has elected to give notice and ban guns. So it is illegal for me to carry into the church I attend.
I also feel a personal obligation to sustain those who serve in church leadership positions, even when I don't necessarily agree with them on some policy issue. This is a personal religious obligation. It is amplified due to some local, lay leadership positions in which I have served.
Finally, as a recognized voice in the Utah RKBA community, I feel an obligation to set the example of gun owners being law abiding and respectful of the desires of Churches (and homeowners who are covered by the same section of law). I helped negotiate the deal that allowed churches to "give notice" without putting overt "gun buster" signs on their sacred property, in exchange for the largest and most politically powerful church in the State not supporting a citizen's initiative that would have banned all private guns from all churches and all schools. I feel honor bound to uphold that deal personally.
Save for the above, I would CC to church. I would not OC because I know that my congregation is politically and socially diverse enough that there are those for whom an OC gun would be concerning. I'm ok with others being uncomfortable due to irrational fears in most public places. But at church, all should feel as welcome and comfortable as possible. So I would personally choose to CC rather than OC so as not to give anyone cause--however irrational--to avoid church attendance and participation. This would be one of my attempts to heed Paul's counsel to the Saints in Corinth (1 Corinthians chapters 8 and 10). Plus, I don't have any OC equipment that would go well with my Sunday-go-to-meeting suits.
Charles
piper...the banning of firearms in Mormon temples and other places of worship within the missions was handed down by the general authorities and your choice of 'illegal' is incorrectly used since as there is no regulatory statute but rather you are following a personally imposed moral obligation!
i find it incredulous you have the audacity to state you believe you are a post child for law biding gun owners when you flat out stated on a public forum that you poor carry a concealed handgun in private establishments which is explicitly against the membership agreement you signed to shop at COSTCO.
hypocritical isn't a strong enough word to use at this point...
ipse
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utbagpiper
Banned
Solus,
It is for exactly these kinds of grossly erroneous posting that I generally try to avoid responding to you. You are umbridged based on your completely backwards understanding of Utah law.
URS 76-10-5-530, Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty. makes it a crime to "knowingly and intentionally transport a firearm into a house of worship or a private residence" after notice has been given by the respective controlling authority.
Anyone who claims to know anything at all of Utah gun laws is familiar with this section of Utah code. Any half-way literate person who cared to understand will go read the link provided. I'll leave it as an exercise to the honest reader to determine that a couple of churches in Utah (including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) have given notice via the BCI webpage method. Last time I was made aware (a couple of years ago) a couple of other churches in the downtown SLC area had given notice via posting of signs at their churches.
You are in error. The statue is clear. It has been in effect for some 10 years.
(And it has nothing to do with "missions" in the LDS church. Even your attempt at vernacular is misplaced.)
And illiterate, PITA, provocateur, are not strong enough words to describe your continued butt hurt over the fact that I don't live my life as you see fit, and you refuse to understand that my choices are entirely within the bounds of Utah State law.
I defy you to find any code in Utah imposing any criminal penalties whatsoever for my carrying a gun into a business that has a no-gun policy.
There is none you illiterate, inconsiderate, dolt. I've explained this repeatedly to you. Yet you continue to make false and slanderous claims about my conduct being illegal.
Some may consider my conduct rude. A few who are mentally incapable of distinguishing between Houses of Worship and business establishments may claim some inconsistency in my choices.
But I am 100% entirely within the legal bounds of the laws of my State.
Carry into a church or private residence that has given notice is illegal.
Carry into a private business with a no-gun policy is perfectly legal.
Either provide a citation to a statute to the contrary, or shut your yap.
In the last 4 months you've not posted a single response to any of my posts that wasn't clearly intended to poke and provoke me. I'm sick of it. Knock it off and find another hobby. I'll ignore you when you are merely annoying. When you post materially false information regarding Utah statute or the legality of my conduct, I will respond forcefully you little troll.
Charles
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utbagpiper
Banned
I'm not your mate. And I'm still waiting for that citation to show disregarding no-gun policies at private business is a violation of any laws in Utah.
Put up or shut up, you stickybeak, raw prawn, ratbag. Get over your tickets.
you are, of course, right grape, i shall cease as i so grow weary of listening to the good moral Mormon's English as they discuss another member's character.
ipse
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OC for ME
Regular Member
URS 76-10-5-530, Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence -- Notice -- Penalty.
Interesting, a private residence property owner must post a sign or inform the citizen who carries a firearm, that the carry of a firearm is prohibited...if they learn that a citizen is carrying a firearm.
Yet, Utah statutes extend no such "courtesy" to non-residence private property owners. The respect for private property is, apparently, conditional in Utah.
Interesting, a private residence property owner must post a sign or inform the citizen who carries a firearm, that the carry of a firearm is prohibited...if they learn that a citizen is carrying a firearm.
Yet, Utah statutes extend no such "courtesy" to non-residence private property owners. The respect for private property is, apparently, conditional in Utah.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Looking to see where you said it was "illegal"......can't find it.
Oh well I think it was Robert Higgs who mentioned that those who use the legality of something to judge whether something is right or wrong are morally vacuous.
utbagpiper
Banned
I think what you meant to say is that Utah law does not allow non-residential property owners to ban guns. Utah law doesn't care what the legal residence is of the property owner. Owners or residential property may ban guns from their homes. Owners of non-residential property do not have any legal backing for a gun ban from their property. Such a ban is, at most, a private civil matter.
Utah law recognizes the differences between a man's home (his castle) and a place of business or other non-residential property.
It recognizes this differences when it comes to given legal weight to gun bans. It also recognizes the differences when it comes to use of deadly force.
I believe and assert that churches and private homes are different than property generally open to the public. Utah law reflects this.
Charles
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utbagpiper
Banned
Those with sufficient reading comprehension and who are not unduly biased can readily see where solus implied it as he attacked my claim of setting a good example of being law abiding because I choose to ignore gun bans in businesses. That coupled with prior posts from solus in other threads where he has slanderously accused me of being a law-breaker for ignoring these gun bans.
Your Robert Higgs quote is off topic here and nothing but a veiled method of insulting me as being "morally vacuous." Please refrain from such thinly veiled personal insults.
I've never said carrying a gun into a business is right because it is legal. Rather, I've asserted that Utah law correctly declines to impose any penalty on violating a gun ban at a private business because such private gun bans are morally defunct, on the same level as would be a "No Irish" or "No Homosexuals" policy would be.
I no longer accept the libertarian view that anti-discrimination policies are offensive. So long as we have anti-discrimination policies, this gun owner doesn't intent to sit at the back of the bus or only use designated drinking fountains. I obey the law. I respect a man's castle and his sacred ground. But I do not feel any moral obligation to obey bigoted anti-self-defense policies in businesses open to the public.
Charles
OC for ME
Regular Member
I stated exactly what I meant. Utah law does not recognize the right of a non-residence private property owner to prohibit firearms from his private property. Thus, the respect for private property rights is conditional in Utah.
The burden to not infringe upon a citizen's rights, without due process, rests only on the state, not the citizen. Yet, the power of the state, Utah in this instance, is used to enable the "infringement" of a private property owner's private property right by his fellow citizen.
This is anti-liberty.