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Where do we draw the line?

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utbagpiper

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I think someone is trying to get a thread locked.

Seems some would rather do that than simply ignore and move on, or engage in honest and rational discussion.

Others' only intent is to demonstrate that those who don't hate government are wrong, always have been wrong, and always will be wrong, regardless of the subject.
 

carolina guy

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No. We are done. Enjoy whatever other argument you can get. There is no need to continue a debate with anyone who favors anarchy and the communism it inextricably brings, over properly functioning government.


BTW: When does anarchy lead to communism inextricably? I can think of a few recent (post 1990) examples of it not doing so...and what is in your mind a "properly functioning" government?
 

utbagpiper

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It would be more polite to at least mention who you are directing your remarks.

Really? Direct similar remarks to SVG and I'll believe you are sincere in that. Otherwise, looks a lot like personality based concerns.

Also, can I make a suggestion? Calm down. Seriously.

Back at you.


I get it, you are a big supporter of the government and the status quo.

That would be an inaccurate assessment of my position. Do not propagate dishonesty. If you have questions regarding my position, it would be polite to ask me directly.
 
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utbagpiper

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Also seems the thread was never in danger of lock until people felt compelled to respond to the false accusations and misstatements of one poster.

The thread was never in danger of lock until anarchists took to being snide about others viewing the world through a different lens than the anarchists do.

Did you want to open a new dialogue of underhanded insults, attacks, and accusations, SVG? Or do you want to leave it alone?

I will welcome citations to any false accusations or misstatements you think I've made. If you can find any.
 
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utbagpiper

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BTW: When does anarchy lead to communism inextricably? I can think of a few recent (post 1990) examples of it not doing so...and what is in your mind a "properly functioning" government?

A fine discussion for another thread. Start that thread and I may just come have a discussion. But it would be rude to hijack this thread to that end. I do not intend to derail this thread any further, but the quotes in my signature line will provide sufficient search fodder for those sincere in their desire to learn of the longstanding and (what some early anarchists argued was) the inextricable link between anarchy and communism.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Let me see nations somehow have rights individuals don't.

Even thought the 2A specifically spells out the right of an individual to throw off the nation......hmmmmmm interesting rock and hardplace for those who make the above claim.
 

utbagpiper

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https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/wmd/wmd_faqs

I would say that we are mostly done because you do not wish to support your argument with ANYTHING approaching fact, just your opinion. So, when you wish to define your terms, we have the basis for a productive discussion. For now, you are wrong and have been wrong all along. good night

About "being wrong", did I not say that grenades and such were not WMDs but were destructive devices or something similar? Where exactly does this law prove that I am wrong?

Is the guy who really wants strict definitions going to conflate "destructive device" with "weapons of mass destruction"?
 

sudden valley gunner

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--Mod edited off topic remarks--

Can an individual own nukes? If not can the state and why?

I'd like to see anyone answer this without making some claim that the state/government has rights that the individual does not.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Oh childish and puerile anarchist and communist, The word nobody, and the word everybody and all such things do not constitute citations, especially when one lacks the courage to include a quote to which he is referring.

I will rarely quote this but will now. The hypocritical, egotistical demands, hubris and false claims about anothers courage will now be QFT.

Courage has nothing to do with it Chucky. Forum rules and your tantrums have a lot to do with it. Trust me I would say all this and more to your face. Your misstatements and arguments against what I didn't say is very clear in this thread so this claim is your attempt at what? I have already had PM's about it.


What is truly amazing is if you really believe you didn't purposefully misstate, or you are yet again trying another dishonest debate tactic.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Sorry to contradict again. But societal norms have been touted on this forum. I could not read the entire story, too disgusting. Kenya, Yemen, are there more societies that hold a differing set of norms from "ours?" (Western morals?)
snipp.../QUOTE]

why must 'ours' (western morals) be imposed on anyone?

kinda selfish to wish our moral on anybody...also what certain religious groups have done from their beginning...

it has worked so well over all these years hasn't it (sarcasm)!!

ipse

Here it is the quote I meant to respond too.

I have over the years grown to view morals as innate to human nature and natural law. What most people view as "morals" are really values.
Recently I read up on some Richard Overton who predates Locke and he had some great writings on this, he was a strict christian but recognized that belief in a god/gods didn't effect morals as a natural state belonging to natural law or reason.

So this goes to the philosophy of this thread, where do we draw the line? If something is immoral for an individual to posses/own/use it is also immoral for the state. Especially one based on protecting individual rights and set up by consent of individuals.
 
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carolina guy

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About "being wrong", did I not say that grenades and such were not WMDs but were destructive devices or something similar? Where exactly does this law prove that I am wrong?

Is the guy who really wants strict definitions going to conflate "destructive device" with "weapons of mass destruction"?

Feel free to read the quoted text from a previous post of mine (above) from the FBI website with the relevant USC citation...and that is why you are actually wrong. The US Government says that grenades are WMD, and sawed off shotguns, and other things. Now, if you wish to define what YOU mean when you say WMD, that would be what I have asked of you several times. Barring that, I will go with what has been defined in law many years ago. No conflation needed, just basic English.
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
moderator, your positive consideration as this is a legitimate unbiased response to a member's post, it is not directed at the member personally in any shape whatsoever, but only only a specific response with cite, again which the member specifically has been requesting in other posts.
Problem - that entire line is decidedly off-topic.
 

carolina guy

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--Mod edited off topic remarks--

Can an individual own nukes? If not can the state and why?

I'd like to see anyone answer this without making some claim that the state/government has rights that the individual does not.

+1

The state is no greater than the individuals that comprise the state, and therefore can posses no more rights than an individual possesses. But, since there is ultimately only one right "to not have anyone steal from you", how can the state have more than that? This is simple natural law as endowed by our Creator.
 
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