Why is there not an Open Carry Association?

[skidmark]

We are a "grass roots movement". That OCDO information table you mentioned is alive and well in Washington State. ....

Are you saying that John and Mike have given you permission/license to speak for the forum/web site? Or are you saying that some folks who may or may not have originally known each other through OCDO have set up a table to give out general information about open carrying?

stay safe.

 

[Thundar]

hmm, interesting. I dont think the NRA is against OC but they are for CC. They go where the sheep will go. There are alot of cc people who dont like OC and they just dont get "Lberty". OC IS the 2A.

The NRA always goes where the money is.

 

[OC for ME]

“OpenCarry.org [is a national] gun rights networking hub.”
The Atlantic, May 10, 2011


​

“There’s even an organization whose raison d’etre is promotion of open carry
. . . OpenCarry.org. These are the shock troops of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away.”
Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009
​

A little late to this party.....sorry.

I would not hold up the two cited "news" organizations as evidence of OCDO having wide exposure as a OC organization. The Atlantic has less than 500K subs and is losing more. They are a news magazine and a liberal leaning news magazine as best as I can tell.

Getting a mention in NJ Dot Com is no feather in the cap of OCDO either in my view. The NJ Dot Com mention was/is condescending.

Unless of course the owners of OCDO are interested in the mere mention of OCDO, regardless of the context of the mention. Exposure of any kind is good to some folks. I would hope that OCDO pursues exposure that supports and promotes OCDO's mission. That places OCDO in a desirable light The two cited exposure opportunities did not support OCDO's goals and certainly did not support OCDO's mission.

But, we can not control what others "say" about us and nor can OCDO control what others say about them. Exposure is exposure, I guess, and it was free to boot.

As to that 300% or so number, I would hope that the vast majority of those visiting OCDO are liberty centric and not anti-liberty. But, they are visitors and we have no way of knowing where they fall regarding liberty.

 

[Thundar]

I think the open carry movement is better off as a sort of network than as a formally organized group. Why?

1. Most open carriers are, by their very nature, anti-collectivists. Trying to define objectives and principles for such a group would be like herding cats.

2. I enjoy OCDO's reason based approach to identifying issues. Let every person decide for themselves based upon the reasoning provided in OCDO's threads. I know that no matter how good the intentions of a central committee would be, they will ultimately choose emotion over reason.

3. Networks are more agile and less vulnerable to lawfare.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

...... Or are you saying that some folks who may or may not have originally known each other through OCDO have set up a table to give out general information about open carrying?....stay safe.

Exactly. You put that into words much better than I. Thank you.

 

[Citizen]

Time For A National OC Association

I'll be the president.

Association dues will be $1000.00 per month. The money will be spent supporting me in my tireless efforts to promote OC.

For the next two minutes, dues will be offered at the tremendous discout of 90%-off; a mere $100 per month.

Send credit card numbers by PM. Include full name and mailing address.

 

[Citizen]

That's Why There is No OC Association

There were no takers for my new OC Association, even at the fantastically reduced membership rate.

So, the lesson is clear: the reason there is no OC association is because nobody wants one.




ETA: Those who sent obnoxious and derisive PMs can stick it in their ear!

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...Those who sent obnoxious and derisive PMs can stick it in their ear!

Is it too late for me to send you an obnoxious and derisive PM?




I have to agree that, while having a central organization to support a cause sounds like a good idea, it is NEVER perfect.

The NRA does good work, but they can only move forward with one position on any given issue.

I'm against requiring training for a CHL. My wife is okay with the training requirement. It doesn't matter where any organization stands on that issue, one of us won't be in agreement with that position.

Keeping it decentralized, with small groups meeting throughout the states, and having Internet forums such as OCDO for information gathering and dispersal, works well for people of all opinions. For taboo topics on one site, there are other sites that allow such talk.

Some people believe in the open carry of firearms OTHER THAN handguns. Perfect example. OCDO, this very site, simply does not allow such discussion. At all. Period.

In Ohio, at least two actual organizations, Ohioans for Concealed Carry and Buckeye Firearms Association, exist to do the tangible work at the statehouse. These groups do not actively promote open carry, but are not shy about asking OC'ers to attend their functions to 'help make a point'. Why do we OC'ers tolerate this 'red-headed stepchild' treatment? Because those organizations have never worked against open carry.

"Can't we all just get along?" Yes. Yes, we can. Just don't try to shoehorn all of us into one box and expect it to happen.

 

[Logan 5]

Perhaps you would see things differently, if you took a closer look at who reads and follows OCDO. At any given time, non-registered users exceed "members" by about 300% or more (There are currently 716 users online. 197 members and 519 guests). These "guests" are politicians, media, your neighbors, clergy, LEOs, mothers, children, and yes antis.

-snip-

Take a look below, we are winning.

Grapeshot, please check your sources. I live in Utah and your map is way off base. Concealed carry is licensed. Open carry is not. You can be in your car and your open carry concealed, as well. However, I think (I don't OC or CC so I really don't know the specifics on this other than memory) that in either OC or CC it can be loaded but not chambered, and in revolvers I think it requires at least two actions to make a round fireable. But as I don't CC or OC....what do I know other than your map is wrong.

I double checked with the local PD before saying, BTW.

 

[Grapeshot]

Originally Posted by Grapeshot

Perhaps you would see things differently, if you took a closer look at who reads and follows OCDO. At any given time, non-registered users exceed "members" by about 300% or more (There are currently 716 users online. 197 members and 519 guests). These "guests" are politicians, media, your neighbors, clergy, LEOs, mothers, children, and yes antis.

-snip-

Take a look below, we are winning.

Grapeshot, please check your sources. I live in Utah and your map is way off base. Concealed carry is licensed. Open carry is not. You can be in your car and your open carry concealed, as well. However, I think (I don't OC or CC so I really don't know the specifics on this other than memory) that in either OC or CC it can be loaded but not chambered, and in revolvers I think it requires at least two actions to make a round fireable. But as I don't CC or OC....what do I know other than your map is wrong.

I double checked with the local PD before saying, BTW.

The "source" is the OCDO map page. I don't see that the map is "way off base" at all. With apologies to those that must or chose to carry an unloaded gun, I do not consider that OC - it may be almost, but it isn't unqualified. There is no restriction on OCing a field striped gun either, but I won't be giving you a cigar.

Have never understood and likely never will, why carrying a fully operative/loaded gun in a vehicle is not legal in Utah. Do bad things (car jacking?) not happen there?

While most officers mean well, some don't and some are misinformed. Nevertheless their advice is worth no more than you paid for it.

 

[Logan 5]

I will check that out Grapeshot and I'll get back to you on this.
I will say for now however, I always thought that Utah had far better gun laws than Colorado.

 

[Grapeshot]

I will check that out Grapeshot and I'll get back to you on this.
I will say for now however, I always thought that Utah had far better gun laws than Colorado.

Utah is generally pro-gun and has mostly good laws.

Colorado wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for Denver, which seems to control the entire state.

 

[rpyne]

The problem here is with definitions.

Under Utah law, a firearm is unloaded if there is no round in the firing position and at least two manual operations are required to fire (UCA 76-10-502), for example, rack the slide, pull the trigger.

The other overlooked point is that loaded carry without a permit only applies to "public streets" (UCA 76-10-505).

The prohibition of carrying "loaded" and the definition of "loaded" go back decades and are the result of compromises made at least partially in getting shall issue passed in Utah.

 

[rpyne]

Utah is generally pro-gun and has mostly good laws.

Utah is rated by Guns & Ammo as #4 in the nation, behind Alaska, Vermont, and Arizona. I would argue about Arizona as the list of prohibited places in Arizona is ridiculous.

 

[rpyne]

They are not as anti-OC as some, but they decidedly are.

Years ago I informed them of their misrepresentation of the law in AL regarding OC. They couldn't care less. I haven't been a member of the NRA since, and won't ever be until they amend their ways and take a pro-no-permission-required-to-carry stance.

Any organization that so actively supports licensing the Right does not advocate the same things that I do. Not even close enough to be tolerable.

I am with you 100% on this. The NRA is more interested in negotiating whatever it takes to keep things stirred up enough to maintain the panic that increases their membership. More than once the NRA has stepped in at the last minute and killed negotiated pro-gun legislation in Utah.

The closest thing I have found to an OCA is National Association for Gun Rights http://www.nationalgunrights.org/ whose membership is almost as big as NRA and growing faster than NRA. They are the ones who won the ruling that prohibiting firearms on postal property is unconstitutional.

 

[rpyne]

Have never understood and likely never will, why carrying a fully operative/loaded gun in a vehicle is not legal in Utah.

It is legal to carry fully loaded in a vehicle in Utah without a permit, open or concealed, you just have to unload when you exit the vehicle onto a public street (or have a permit) (UCA 76-20-505).