Wonder if there's a way to OC, but hidden in plain sight?

[solus]

Indeed nice try, but a fanny pack is not a flap style holster.

you are reaping what you sow'd...

ipse

 

[Grapeshot]

you are reaping what you sow'd...

ipse

No, no - I walk the line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHF9itPLUo4

 

[Wstar425]

Yeah discrete open carry is what I'm pondering, not because of any reason, really.

I'd imagine if you had a dress shirt and it was black with a pattern, say like this:

X X X X X
..X.X.X.X

...or similar, and you had a handgun with an IWB holster, and the handgrip of the firearm had the same pattern, it would be extremely discrete. The pattern breaks up the lines, and the IWB holster conceals the bottom half.

Here, in Va, where they have 'Va tuck', you could consider that a no-permit-needed. (we have a permit, so I'm not trying to evade the rule).

Also, I'm not sure I asked this, but if you are driving a car in Va and you HAVE a permit and you are OC-ing, do you have to present (if asked) the permit since you are not Conceal-carrying?

In fact, let's say you say nothing, just give the officer your proof-of-insurance, Va DRLicence and Owner's Permit and say NOTHING - are you copacetic, good-to-go, 99% safe from LEO messing around with you? ("Get out of the car", "Any guns in the car", "Are you carrying?", "Do you have a permit?"). These are all questions that you don't HAVE to answer, just be polite.

Am I correct?

I have only been stopped twice in 30+ years, so again, just pondering for the sake of argument.

We've even toyed with the idea of locking up the EDC in a tool box, just out of reach, to not have to be forced to surrender the piece, or answer questions.

I understand that in Va, the rule is 'if carrying in or about the person you must present the permit on demand'. (it says nothing about talking about the firearm).

In this climate of agitated LEO, I'm just thinking about options on the road.

TIA

I have no idea about the law in Virgnia. I do sometimes dress in a way that I consider to be "discrete" open carry. Sometimes I don't care, sometimes I actually might want it to be more obvious. Sometimes I want it it be a little less obvious. Sometimes I might actually even conceal!!!

It is mostly about the image I am trying to put out, and rarely (I won't say never) about not offending someone's fragile snsibilities. I don't OC to church. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it's not the most important thing at the time, I guess. I won't carry into someone's house without first asking permission. I've put way more time into discussing this than I do picking my daily wear, that's for sure. If I am working and all dirty or greasy and need to run to town, I would generally either change clothes, conceal, or not carry, as that is not the image I wish for people to remember when they see me. Again, I can't emphasize my feelings enough that people just don't pay attention nor notice, for the most part. But, some do for sure.

 

[deepdiver]

As some people on the forum who have met me know and have seen, if I get asked something about my gun, it is most often not about carrying but if I'm a Fed. I've even had cops ask me that. I honestly don't know why. I guess being tall, short cropped hair, my bearing and looking decently fit (for my age at least) and carrying all add up to some stereotype in people's minds.

I was getting my hair cut recently (just wearing slacks and a plain dress shirt, no tie), under the hair cutting cape with my strong side towards the back of the building, when a lady walked into the shop. She sat to wait and after a few minutes called out to me to ask what Fed dept I work for, utterly convinced that I just "look like a fed". I told her I wasn't law enforcement. She asked if I was undercover. I repeated. She insisted a bit then her stylist came and got her. Well, she ended up in the chair behind me so when I got up so she could see me and my sidearm in the mirror. She darn near jumped up and exclaimed, "Ah ha! I knew you were a fed. Obviously under cover!" I just smiled.

I write that to agree with the open carry in plain sight is sometimes nearly concealed carry. I rarely get looks anymore, even from LEO and even in shorts. I can only guess at this point it is because I have that "look" of someone who is "supposed" to have a gun. Add the fact that most people do not notice at all to apparently having that "look" then even if someone notices, perhaps it doesn't even register because in their mind my carrying is just expected.

So yeah, I agree and think there are a lot of things about an individual that make it more or less likely that anyone will notice OC or, if they do, that it will really register in their minds as a thing.

 

[HeroHog]

On looks and being mistaken for a fed/cop, my dad, a former Marine, a 6' tall man of slender but not weak build, was a dark skinned man who had American Indian features and wore his hair in a crew cut style. He was a traveling salesman and normally wore a casual suit. He also needed glasses to read so he wore them in a case on his hip... Yes, people looked at him, caught a glimpse of the glasses case and were convinced he was a Fed/undercover cop and nothing he could say would dissuade them. This was "interesting" seeing as we were living in an apartment in Metairie, LA and the apartment next to us was VERY likely a mob house.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Who would that be?

Cite please.

Various Illinois district attorneys in the 80's and 90's that I spoke to.

 

[davidmcbeth]

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...acks"++"open+carry"+handgun&hl=en&as_sdt=8006

Case where judge agreed that fanny packs are essentially the same as holsters.....for OC statute.

So there appears to be some unanswered legal conclusions regarding this subject matter.

I would argue that a fanny pack = OC. And if it is labeled "Gun Pack" or something similar no doubt about it.

http://www.buyholsters.com/files/1871775/uploaded/BH60WF06BK_1.jpg

A gun holster? Or non-OC fanny pack?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Various Illinois district attorneys in the 80's and 90's that I spoke to.

Completely WRONG! OC is not considered legal in Illinois, so there is no way that fanny pack can be considered unconcealed. It can be considered a gun case used for transportation but the gun must be unloaded, before the concealed carry law. BTW a card board box can be considered a gun case.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Completely WRONG! OC is not considered legal in Illinois, so there is no way that fanny pack can be considered unconcealed. It can be considered a gun case used for transportation but the gun must be unloaded, before the concealed carry law. BTW a card board box can be considered a gun case.

Really? Many DAs in IL prior to the McDonald case allowed people to fanny pack carry w/o fear of being arrested. Due to their belief that OC was a right ... regardless of state law that disallowed it.

 

[davidmcbeth]

The proper response is Personal Communication, rather than promoting a self-serving and incontrovertible lie.

OK Francis.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Really? Many DAs in IL prior to the McDonald case allowed people to fanny pack carry w/o fear of being arrested. Due to their belief that OC was a right ... regardless of state law that disallowed it.

Please provide some citation to your stupid assumption that is not true. Remember some of us have been around for a while. In fact it was considered IIRC 6 second conceal carry. And only legal if the gun was unloaded, and ammo was in a separate compartment. It was in fact considered by some legal due to firearm transportation laws, NOT OC. It was never called OC, and mostly called fanny pack carry, which many people use a fanny pack for carrying other than firearms, making it NOT considered a holster.

Please provide citations from the DA's, which are really state's attorneys in Illinois that fanny pack carry is open carry? You can't even get the correct designation of prosecutors right.

This article was posted before the McDonald case by several years, so it had absolutely nothing to do with that case.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_fanny-packs-concealed-gun-control-activists

A growing number of registered Illinois gun owners believe they've found a legal loophole that allows them to carry concealed handguns and ammunition in public, tucked in specially designed fanny packs.

Fanny pack proponents say the trendy gun pouches, some of which are designed to look like day planners or cell phone cases, are a breakthrough for personal security. Gun control activists see their use as a legalistic ploy that threatens public safety.

Legal experts, police and prosecutors are debating the novel gun-law interpretation, which has gained adherents--and critics--across the state in a matter of months.

The fanny pack advocates have latched on to a long-standing clause in state law that permits a registered owner to carry a gun that is unloaded and "enclosed in a case ... or other container." The idea that specially designed fanny packs meet that standard has not been tested in court, and the question is apparently unique to Illinois, one of only seven states that bar most people from carrying concealed firearms.