Congrats texas on your new Open Carry

[stealthyeliminator]

To me, needing a permit is a bad situation. Why? Because if you are OC-ing it means any LEO can stop you and demand your permit. It will have a chilling effect as LE draw down on carriers and someone gets shot.

...But, I hope not.

The Dems tried to amend hb910 to include a provision requiring OCers to supply license on demand. It failed. Phillips really beat around the bush and refused to state that without the amendment, OCers would NOT have to provide ID on demand, which is what the Dems were trying to get him to openly state. In fact, there is no legal requirement to display license on demand. I for one will certainly refuse to do so, but I seriously doubt that in my area there would be a problem with it.

There is still a statute (Government Code 411.205) that talks about supplying ID and license on demand, but I think that it has been sufficiently neutered.
(http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#411.205)
From the bill which removed the penalty for violations of 411.205 (in the same bill, they removed violation of 411.205 as a reason for suspension of license as well):
SECTION 12A.03. An offense under Section 411.205, Government Code, may not be prosecuted after the effective date of this article. If, on the effective date of this article, a criminal action is pending for an offense under Section 411.205, the action is dismissed on that date. However, a final conviction for an offense under Section 411.205 that exists on the effective date of this article is unaffected by this article.
(http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/HB02730F.HTM)

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

To me, needing a permit is a bad situation. Why? Because if you are OC-ing it means any LEO can stop you and demand your permit. It will have a chilling effect as LE draw down on carriers and someone gets shot.

...But, I hope not.

It is not as good as constitutional carry or as no demand but it wouldn't be worth killing the bill. One step forward at a time gets you where you want to go.

 

[OC for ME]

Not SOOOO Fast.....

Their is court opinion that since carrying a gun is a "Lawful Activity" it is NOT RAS for a detainment!
Same as driving a car...

It is nearing the point that some of our 4th amendment protections are actually protecting us!
.....Against unreasonable searches and seizures,,, Making a permit,,, MOOT!!!

There is plenty of court opinion that OCing a LG is lawful yet cops jacked up TX citizens for doing lawful things. What will prevent a TX cop from requesting that a OCer provide papers on demand just cuz he can. The issue is what will a TX citizen be subjected to for refusing to provide papers.

 

[jordanmills]

There is plenty of court opinion that OCing a LG is lawful yet cops jacked up TX citizens for doing lawful things. What will prevent a TX cop from requesting that a OCer provide papers on demand just cuz he can. The issue is what will a TX citizen be subjected to for refusing to provide papers.

Jail time. I think that's covered by official oppression. But like that will ever happen, lol.

 

[solus]

The Dems tried to amend hb910 to include a provision requiring OCers to supply license on demand. It failed. Phillips really beat around the bush and refused to state that without the amendment, OCers would NOT have to provide ID on demand, which is what the Dems were trying to get him to openly state. In fact, there is no legal requirement to display license on demand. I for one will certainly refuse to do so, but I seriously doubt that in my area there would be a problem with it.

There is still a statute (Government Code 411.205) that talks about supplying ID and license on demand, but I think that it has been sufficiently neutered.
(http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#411.205)
From the bill which removed the penalty for violations of 411.205 (in the same bill, they removed violation of 411.205 as a reason for suspension of license as well):
SECTION 12A.03. An offense under Section 411.205, Government Code, may not be prosecuted after the effective date of this article. If, on the effective date of this article, a criminal action is pending for an offense under Section 411.205, the action is dismissed on that date. However, a final conviction for an offense under Section 411.205 that exists on the effective date of this article is unaffected by this article.
(http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/HB02730F.HTM)

first of all stealth, you state, there is no legal requirement, then you turnaround and list 411-205 as a statute requiring citizens shall display, then you state: oh but it is neutered???

how can a viable statute still on the books be neutered.??? 411. 205 specifically states:
Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

further,
411.207 allow the nice officer to disarm you "...believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.". oh yes, the nice officer must give back your firearm when they dismiss you from their presence, if they believe you do not pose a threat...lol
411.208 states the nice officer cannot be held liable for their actions...

nurtured, ya right...lol...recommend you read 411.186 and 411.187 where all the nice officer has to do is fills out an affidavit, sends it in to wherever and the wherever sends a notice to the licensee their permit is revoked or suspended...why get upset with a licensee and write a ticket in the field when all the nice officer has to do is sit in their office and get even with the cranky licensee who flatly states quote:...i for one will certainly refuse to do so...unquote.

oh boy, oh boy, you can OC w/o the nice police bothering me...apparently not stealth...cuz according to texas statutes listed above, the nice peace officer is not restrained from hassling citizens OC'g now are they??

how are the nice officer's going to ascertain the bloke open carrying that firearm is truly allowed to by permit unless they ask the citizen for the permit. sounds like they have probable cause cuz texas' citizen's right to open carry is tied to a piece of privilege granted by the state.

no need for additional statutes...its already on the books in the lone star state...

puff the magic dragon lives on in the hearts and minds...

ipse

 

[Glock 1st fan]

To me, needing a permit is a bad situation. Why? Because if you are OC-ing it means any LEO can stop you and demand your permit. It will have a chilling effect as LE draw down on carriers and someone gets shot.

...But, I hope not.

One thing you have to understand about police officers. They are bound to respect your civil rights or they can be charged as individuals for violating those rights. With that being said most officers even in my state where open carry is legal will tell you they have no issue with it.

That's not to say a rogue officer may occasionally come up who is against open carry and may try to ruffle a few feathers but its not been a problem here. With long guns there is a difference in views for various reasons among officers who see them as a long range or offensive type firearm. Now I am not saying this is the case for all officers but for some it is.

One thing I have to admit is everyone jumps on the bandwagon how evil police are over the actions of a few but I really think if most people would sit down and quit cop trolling they would find most officers really are not against lawful carry. Sure like any group of people your going to get a difference of opinions but not every officer is against us.

Lastly as the point of this reply just relax and if your not doing anything wrong or illegal just let it roll off. You'll find that the majority actually are not anti-gun.

 

[The Truth]

Yeah well most people aren't criminals. Does that mean we should repeal all laws and get rid of the police altogether?

 

[OC for ME]

...

Lastly as the point of this reply just relax and if your not doing anything wrong or illegal just let it roll off. You'll find that the majority actually are not anti-gun.

If I am not doing anything wrong or illegal. it is not the majority that I am concerned with. I most certainly will not let it roll off, nor should you. Pursue a redress of wrongs vigorously and work to have that cop disbarred from any employment in LE.

My interest resides clearly in the "what are the coworkers of rogue officers doing to not be painted as evil police" camp.

 

[Citizen]

There is plenty of court opinion that OCing a LG is lawful yet cops jacked up TX citizens for doing lawful things. What will prevent a TX cop from requesting that a OCer provide papers on demand just cuz he can. The issue is what will a TX citizen be subjected to for refusing to provide papers.

I suspect it will go down a lot like OC did a few years ago in (California? Nevada?) where OCers had to carry their pistols unloaded. Something like "two steps from being able to fire". Magazine not in the gun or something.

The cops detained a few OCers a number of times to check them out--harassment. But, then the cops finally gave up.

In Texas, I suspect there would be a period where cops detain and check for paperwork. Over time the frequency peters out until it only happens occasionally in the backwaters.

For OC generally, I think there was another dynamic going on with police. Long term OCers will remember 2006-(2009?). Lots of detentions even where OC was legal, and no permit required. Cops have a knack for going beyond their authority. We saw it over and over again. Not just the fact of a stop, but threats and badgering and demands for consent to search, etc. And, you know darned good and well those cops didn't wake up that morning and decide that for the first time in their career they were going to violate someone's 4A or 5A rights. Those cops were doing it all along. Then they started running into citizens (OCers) who knew their rights cold. Over time, as OCers made it clear they were willing to fight back, I think cops realized there was no point in stopping OCers because they all knew their rights. So, any OCer became in some cops' minds someone who knew his rights cold, was not a criminal, and would fight back at the least pressure against a 4A or 5A right. So, those cops gave up.

I think some version of the same thing will happen if POC (permit open carry) goes through in TX. For a while cops will stop plenty of OCers and check their paperwork. Some might even breach the 4A or 5A during the stop, fishing for something else. But, a few formal complaints or a lawsuit will convince them to knock off that stuff. In time, the cops will realize that everybody they stop has a permit, so why bother stopping them? Even the cops inclined to harassment thru checking permits will give up when they see it is not deterring OCers.

 

[OC for ME]

I suspect it will go down a lot like OC did a few years ago in (California? Nevada?) where OCers had to carry their pistols unloaded. Something like "two steps from being able to fire". Magazine not in the gun or something.

The cops detained a few OCers a number of times to check them out--harassment. But, then the cops finally gave up....

Good analysis...I refer to this effect as the point of diminishing returns. When the "consensual stop" costs more than any possible inconvenience to the OCer the dude who signs those "relief" checks tends to focus not on the citizen but the enforcer. Cops really don't like that guy focusing on them...and their daily comings and goings.

 

[solus]

If I am not doing anything wrong or illegal. it is not the majority that I am concerned with. I most certainly will not let it roll off, nor should you. Pursue a redress of wrongs vigorously and work to have that cop disbarred from any employment in LE.

My interest resides clearly in the "what are the coworkers of rogue officers doing to not be painted as evil police" camp.

that OC4ME is the crux of the problem, as recently evidenced in the SC incident where the responding officer allegedly falsified their report regarding attending to the victim laying on the ground.

tks for once again bringing the perception to the forefront!!

ipse

 

[OC for ME]

that OC4ME is the crux of the problem, as recently evidenced in the SC incident where the responding officer allegedly falsified their report regarding attending to the victim laying on the ground.

tks for once again bringing the perception to the forefront!!

ipse

It seems to me to be almost a genetic response to cover tracks for each other in the LE profession. Unfortunate it is, the tarring and feathering that the good cop must endure at the hands of their ruffian brethren. The ruffian's unlawful behavior is not the issue with they, it is the tarring and feathering from us, calling LE out for the ruffians on our payroll, they focus on.

Funny too...it is my fault that a ruffian cop is working with them.

 

[kinggabby]

There was a period in Oklahoma City where I was ID checked 5 or 6 times in a month. I agree I would prefer Constitutional carry. But we have what we have for now. It did not bother me to show my ID only took a few seconds.

 

[The Dark Reaper]

This might not be the right place to be posting this but here it goes. why in the hell was 910 postponed??????

 

[Ian]

This might not be the right place to be posting this but here it goes. why in the hell was 910 postponed??????

Bollocks.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Where did you read that it was postponed? The third reading is on the Supplemental House Calendar for today, whatever that means. ??

 

[Ian]

Where did you read that it was postponed? The third reading is on the Supplemental House Calendar for today, whatever that means. ??

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/history.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=HB910

You can sign up for email alerts on that page as well any time there is a change in the bill status.

 

[The Dark Reaper]

Soare we still getting our third reading today or are we going back on the calender??:cuss:

 

[Kopis]

To me, needing a permit is a bad situation. Why? Because if you are OC-ing it means any LEO can stop you and demand your permit. It will have a chilling effect as LE draw down on carriers and someone gets shot.

...But, I hope not.

Yawn, doesnt happen here in TN.

 

[RichardR]

Can't wait. Shopping for OC holsters now.