Spoke with a Convicted Fellon Saturday about OC

[Centerfire Citizen]

Just read your posts skidmark, I'm really not trying to start anything by what I posted and I apoligize if I did. I was just thinking outloud and thought that maybe some people have thought a similar thought, but I guess its absurd to try to think of certain scanrios, likely them happening or not. And about the pistol whipping thing, of course I would never do that, I would NEVER unholster a deadly weapon unless I was in fear for my life. That was only meant as a joke and I thought that would be obvious, again I apologize for making a joke on this forum. I know this is a forum about a serious matter and I will try to act more serious and realistic in the future. Sorry for my previous immaturity.

And please try to refrain yourself from accusing me of being mentally unstable could you, you don't know me in any way. On 9/10/01 who thought that terrorist would hijack 2 planes and crash them into a US building and kill thousands of people, nobody and you would get called crazy if you thought that. Or maybe just prepared? Now before you diagnose me again, I obviously know this is completely unrelated to what we are discussing and I'm I can assure you I don't have ADD.

 

[hermannr]

I have thought about this subject many times, as I'm sure anyone who owns or carries guns has, and I think OC is good for what is described in this story, the immature petty criminals that don't want to be caught in a situation with someone that actually can shoot a gun. But as far as the real criminals I think CC would be a better option. In an extreme scenario such as a bank robbery, and an armed person came in locked and loaded, you might be the first to get shot or forced to surrender your sidearm if you are OC'ing. But in that situation, as stated earlier, you can't be picked apart from anyone else and might be able to react before the robber has the chance to pick you out. I think OC'ing is great and am glad that people are allowed to do it, but since not many people do it, I think it draws a lot of attention versus CC. Some times negative and sometimes positive.

Hej! I just want to say a couple words to this: Opinions are like behinds, everyone has one, and they all smell differently. So now, for my opinion:

I have carried for over 40 years (mostly OC) and it has been my observation that with very minor exceptions (probably <1%), if a person was to enter a bank, with the intention of making a withdrawl of money that was not their's, and they saw an OC firearm on anyone...they would go find another bank, or wait until that OC was long gone. Have you ever heard of a bank robbery when a uniformed Police officer was already in the bank? I haven't. Do you think it would be the uniform that would keep a robbery from happening when LE is present? or do you think it might be the sidearm that LEO is carrying?

Granted, there are some robbers that do not care and come armed for bear like those two in LA, but I would rather take the 99% chance I detured a crime from ever happening, rather than having some shoot out with anyone, anywhere.

I have had one personal experience in 40 years of carry...this was where a guy thought he was going to do me great bodily harm...he reached into my car to drag me out and Oh My, that Colt in that OC holster looks BIG...he changed his mind so fast the pistol never even left the holster. The old man behind the steering whell looked like an easy target, but....

 

[DocWalker]

Hej! I just want to say a couple words to this: Opinions are like behinds, everyone has one, and they all smell differently. So now, for my opinion:

I have carried for over 40 years (mostly OC) and it has been my observation that with very minor exceptions (probably <1%), if a person was to enter a bank, with the intention of making a withdrawl of money that was not their's, and they saw an OC firearm on anyone...they would go find another bank, or wait until that OC was long gone. Have you ever heard of a bank robbery when a uniformed Police officer was already in the bank? I haven't. Do you think it would be the uniform that would keep a robbery from happening when LE is present? or do you think it might be the sidearm that LEO is carrying?

Granted, there are some robbers that do not care and come armed for bear like those two in LA, but I would rather take the 99% chance I detured a crime from ever happening, rather than having some shoot out with anyone, anywhere.

I have had one personal experience in 40 years of carry...this was where a guy thought he was going to do me great bodily harm...he reached into my car to drag me out and Oh My, that Colt in that OC holster looks BIG...he changed his mind so fast the pistol never even left the holster. The old man behind the steering whell looked like an easy target, but....

+1

 

[Centerfire Citizen]

Hej! I just want to say a couple words to this: Opinions are like behinds, everyone has one, and they all smell differently. So now, for my opinion:

I have carried for over 40 years (mostly OC) and it has been my observation that with very minor exceptions (probably <1%), if a person was to enter a bank, with the intention of making a withdrawl of money that was not their's, and they saw an OC firearm on anyone...they would go find another bank, or wait until that OC was long gone. Have you ever heard of a bank robbery when a uniformed Police officer was already in the bank? I haven't. Do you think it would be the uniform that would keep a robbery from happening when LE is present? or do you think it might be the sidearm that LEO is carrying?

Granted, there are some robbers that do not care and come armed for bear like those two in LA, but I would rather take the 99% chance I detured a crime from ever happening, rather than having some shoot out with anyone, anywhere.

I have had one personal experience in 40 years of carry...this was where a guy thought he was going to do me great bodily harm...he reached into my car to drag me out and Oh My, that Colt in that OC holster looks BIG...he changed his mind so fast the pistol never even left the holster. The old man behind the steering whell looked like an easy target, but....

Thank you for posting your experiences, that was a very informative and helpful post. I appreciate it.

 

[Billy]

Dahwg of Tucson ~

Appreciated your cogent report as it confirmed many points and was encouraging, too.

Was reminded of an equally good report posted in these forums some time ago --- http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/31230.html

While fueling up the Harley at the local store in Houghton Lake recently I had a pleasant interaction with an off-duty lady LE0. It went swell and I reckon by her comments and smile that she was grateful that citizens are openly armed with all lawful intent.

Take care, neighbor...

Respectfully,
Billy

P.S. should any of y'all be interested in helping out the family members of our brave, fallen SEAL's then please consider the following --- http://www.NavySEALfoundation.org/

 

[Daylen]

Yes that is all hypothetical, but its the "Take the biggest/toughest one first" mentality, like getting youself into some trouble and havin to swing your way out of it, you always go after the biggest dude because after that its smooth sailing. And I don't doubt the fact that there is no documented case of that scenario, but does it make sense that it could happen? To me it does. And about the "If every bank teller and LAC was armed" scenario, well that's the world I one day want to live in. Where people that followed the rules were the ones that carried guns and not the thugs and gangsters. Sounds good to me DocWalker.

All things "could" happen. Does it make sense? no. Inherent in your argument is the assumption that the criminal has only one victum group. If it was a choice between the armed group and death then your argument would be more valid. However, predators choose easy victums. Ever hear of the lion attacking the bull of the herd insead of the slow running calf? Not much I expect. The same holds true for human predators, there are plenty of documented cases where the predator leaves once he realises his prey is armed. Even with the advantage of suprise when the prey has a weapon all bets are off, anything can happen and injury is far easier. Sure say he does shoot the armed guy first, then the armed guy returns fire and might injure the criminal. That is a loose for the criminal even if the other guy is dead. Once injured it will be hard to attack for a bit, and the criminal must risk either a hospital where police will likely investigate him or risk not going to a hospital after a serious injury thus risking death.

 

[okboomer]

Well I'm not a sociology student (business major) but I'm in an elective criminology class right now. My term paper is on the "Rational Choice Theory"...i.e. do criminals make rational choices leading up to the commission of their crimes.

I am going to try to work the OP and the Stossel vid, particularly the statements of the convicted criminals, as well as the post about the neighborhood thugs not screwing with the car of the armed owner, into my term paper. When criminals see an armed citizen and avoid him, that is most certainly a "rational decision".

SMILE

Don't forget about the Kennesaw, Ga Waffle House non-incident with supporting police interview/documentation :lol:

 

[We-the-People]

Don't forget about the Kennesaw, Ga Waffle House non-incident with supporting police interview/documentation :lol:

I had forgotten all about that one, though I don't recall police "documentation" like I would LOVE to cite in my term paper....you know, an official report that says "yup, bad guy saw LAC with gun, made rational choice not to be stupid" LOL.

You don't happen to have a nice handy link to the thread (or some other documentation) handy would you? Gonna go search GA forum

 

[MilProGuy]

I have thought about this subject many times, as I'm sure anyone who owns or carries guns has, and I think OC is good for what is described in this story, the immature petty criminals that don't want to be caught in a situation with someone that actually can shoot a gun. But as far as the real criminals I think CC would be a better option. In an extreme scenario such as a bank robbery, and an armed person came in locked and loaded, you might be the first to get shot or forced to surrender your sidearm if you are OC'ing. But in that situation, as stated earlier, you can't be picked apart from anyone else and might be able to react before the robber has the chance to pick you out. I think OC'ing is great and am glad that people are allowed to do it, but since not many people do it, I think it draws a lot of attention versus CC. Some times negative and sometimes positive.

I've read all your posts on this particular thread, and must say I appreciate the insights you have shared.

Thanks.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

skidmark

Nice signature:

"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

I prefer "If you count to three you'll never hear the man count 10".

 

[balota]

...
He said, "can't tell who is strapped and who isn't. Someone carrying concealed looks just like everyone else. See, when guys like him case a joint, they make sure that everything is in place. As soon as they see someone with a piece hangin' off their belt it messes with their rhythm. That throws them off and makes them shaky."

Then he said something that has stuck with me since, "my brother said it took him almost a week to get the picture of a guy with a gun out of his mind before he got the nerve up to go rob another store. It really freaked him out because it reminded him that there were people out there with guns that could shoot back."

I said (in my most sarcastic voice), "you can't tell me a hardened criminal is actually scared of a private citizen with a handgun."

His answer? "Thugs ain't no heroes... too lazy and it takes a lot of energy to get nerve up to go somewhere and do it. If you mess with that flow they gotta wait until they get jacked up enough to do it again. Could take a few minutes or a few days, but they won't go back to where they know somebody's packin'"

Thought provoking conversation. I just hope this kid has learned his lesson and stays out of trouble.

Thought provoking indeed. I think many of us have an incorrect notion that all the BGs out there are cold-blooded murderers. Some are, but most are not. Some of them are clever enough to figure out that crimes like robbery involve much less penalty than murder or attempted murder. They will choose not to commit a crime in the presence of an armed citizen for any of several reasons, one of which amounts to risk management. It's safer for them to use a gun to threaten an unarmed person if there is no one around with a gun to threaten them back.

Also, they know that the police have some fairly rigid restrictions about the use of firearms. They believe the police are trained in how and when to use them. They believe that the average citizen is not similarly trained and probably doesn't feel as constrained in the use of firearms. That's why they're more afraid of non-LEOs with guns.

 

[Jake8x7]

I ran into a kid at the carwash this past Saturday, I remember him and his brother from church when they were ankle-biters. Sadly both this guy and his brother ended up doing time in the state pokey (His brother is actually back in) while he has turned his life around. He recognized me and came up to start chatting- saw my sidearm and asked what I was carrying these days. Spent a few minutes talking about my firearm and he says, "you know, guys like my brother fear people like you."

I said, "armed people?"

He said, "no, armed people who don't bother covering it up."

I asked, "Why not just regular armed people?"

He said, "can't tell who is strapped and who isn't. Someone carrying concealed looks just like everyone else. See, when guys like him case a joint, they make sure that everything is in place. As soon as they see someone with a piece hangin' off their belt it messes with their rhythm. That throws them off and makes them shaky."

Then he said something that has stuck with me since, "my brother said it took him almost a week to get the picture of a guy with a gun out of his mind before he got the nerve up to go rob another store. It really freaked him out because it reminded him that there were people out there with guns that could shoot back."

I said (in my most sarcastic voice), "you can't tell me a hardened criminal is actually scared of a private citizen with a handgun."

His answer? "Thugs ain't no heroes... too lazy and it takes a lot of energy to get nerve up to go somewhere and do it. If you mess with that flow they gotta wait until they get jacked up enough to do it again. Could take a few minutes or a few days, but they won't go back to where they know somebody's packin'"

Thought provoking conversation. I just hope this kid has learned his lesson and stays out of trouble.

Imagine your pirate ego as a felon crumbling into dust when you realize you can't rob everyone. Not my house, and not today. Makes perfect sense.

Jake8x7

 

[The Atomic Ass]

As a guess, I would rank the threats from others while you are OCing in this order:

1. Mentally unbalanced and off meds.

What say you?

I would personally rank anyone on meds FAR higher than someone off meds.

 

[DocWalker]

Imagine your pirate ego as a felon crumbling into dust when you realize you can't rob everyone. Not my house, and not today. Makes perfect sense.

Jake8x7

Arrrrr, he be armed. Must pursue me treasure from another "not so armed" treasure chest.

Ok pirate ego imagined.....arrrrrrr

 

[Big Gay Al]

I would personally rank anyone on meds FAR higher than someone off meds.

Consider this, someone on their meds is far less likely to start an incident, than someone who's not on their meds.

 

[jhco50]

I ran into a kid at the carwash this past Saturday, I remember him and his brother from church when they were ankle-biters. Sadly both this guy and his brother ended up doing time in the state pokey (His brother is actually back in) while he has turned his life around. He recognized me and came up to start chatting- saw my sidearm and asked what I was carrying these days. Spent a few minutes talking about my firearm and he says, "you know, guys like my brother fear people like you."

I said, "armed people?"

He said, "no, armed people who don't bother covering it up."

I asked, "Why not just regular armed people?"

He said, "can't tell who is strapped and who isn't. Someone carrying concealed looks just like everyone else. See, when guys like him case a joint, they make sure that everything is in place. As soon as they see someone with a piece hangin' off their belt it messes with their rhythm. That throws them off and makes them shaky."

Then he said something that has stuck with me since, "my brother said it took him almost a week to get the picture of a guy with a gun out of his mind before he got the nerve up to go rob another store. It really freaked him out because it reminded him that there were people out there with guns that could shoot back."

I said (in my most sarcastic voice), "you can't tell me a hardened criminal is actually scared of a private citizen with a handgun."

His answer? "Thugs ain't no heroes... too lazy and it takes a lot of energy to get nerve up to go somewhere and do it. If you mess with that flow they gotta wait until they get jacked up enough to do it again. Could take a few minutes or a few days, but they won't go back to where they know somebody's packin'"

Thought provoking conversation. I just hope this kid has learned his lesson and stays out of trouble.

I hope you don't mind if I use your story as an example of why we carry. I will make sure you are credited. Thank you.

 

[since9]

I would personally rank anyone on meds FAR higher than someone off meds.

Not I, especially since many combinations of meds are know to produce paranoid and psychotic thoughts.

Similarly, however, if the meds are required to maintain normal thoughts...

 

[griffin]

although there were a couple of LDS young ladies that I would have loved to have known better in my younger years.

I see what you did here.

 

[froglives]

"The presence of my firearm seems to have a calming effect on the street thugs and even the mentally unbalanced seem to gain a sliver of lucidity"

Exactly that, well said.

 

[froglives]

The Big Guy

[QUOTE=Centerfire Citizen like getting youself into some trouble and havin to swing your way out of it, you always go after the biggest dude because after that its smooth sailing.

LOL I am that big dude, I have never been beat by someone bigger, but have had my ass handed to me more times than I care to remember by the guy half my size. Once you have broken a few knuckles, noses, heads, etc. you will realize "The Threat is the Threat" this has nothing to do with size, age, sex, it has everything to do with the threat.

Not meant to be condensing, just that making assumptions in years past meant you might get your ass kicked, making those same assumptions now, at least where I live could get you killed.