It seems to me extremely unclear on the laws concerning open carry in Wichita. One person says its legal to carry unloaded on my hip unconcealed. The other saying its flat out illegal to carry at all.
It's hard to get to the bottom of it, even if you talk to the bureaucracy. IANAL, but I will cite what the Wichita Municipal Code states.
Sec. 5.88.010. Unlawful use of weapons. said:
(d) Carrying any pistol, revolver or other firearm concealed on one's person, while on property open to the public, except when on one's land or in one's abode or fixed place of business;
(e) Carrying on one's person any unconcealed, loaded firearm, while on property open to the public, except when on one's land or in one's abode or fixed place of business;
(f) Carrying in any vehicle under one's immediate control, while on property open to the public, any loaded firearm, except when on one's land or in one's abode or fixed place of business;
t_mhandyman said:
Then what exactly are we calling "unloaded"?
All due respect, it's pretty obvious. When you clean your weapon, you call it unloaded because there are no rounds in or around the weapon, right?
There are four conditions for carrying a weapon:
Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked" - You're firing the weapon, or can pull the trigger and fire the weapon. Round in the tube, mag in the well, hammer cocked if applicable, safety off if applicable.
Condition 2 "Awkward" - Same as condition one except the hammer is down if applicable.
Condition 3 "Half-loaded" - Loaded mag in the well, nothing in the tube, hammer down, safety on.
Condition 4 "Unloaded" - No mag in the well, nothing in the tube, safety on, hammer down.
Only one of those is unloaded, and it's condition 4. If you carry any other way, you're violating law and you're going to have a really pissed off policeman.
t_myhandyman said:
Can I have a magazine in the weapon with the chamber empty or can I have no magazine at all.
No magazine can be in the weapon, as that is a loaded weapon.
t_myhandyman said:
My holster has a spot right on top to carry a mag.
I do not think you would be violating any law there, but a policeman may not be happy with that. I keep my magazine in my opposing pocket. If I carry on my right hip, the magazine is in my left pocket. This allows for a more fluid "draw, and make ready" motion. I turn the weapon away from my target (putting my left side toward the target) and as I draw my weapon, I pull the magazine out and insert it. My left hand is then right next to the weapon to reciprocate the slide and chamber a round.
For my personal tastes, it would be too awkward to have a magazine on that side, even if it was a quickload because my left hand would still be too far for me to quickly cycle. Granted, I've never used a speedloader before, but I can imagine I wouldn't be fond of it.
t_myhandyman said:
I would really appreciate some clarification before I walk into a quicktrip with a gun on my hip and get shot by WPD.
Thanks, Tim
Without doing lots of research first, it would be best if you open carried with friends on members of this forum before open carrying alone. Have you open carried before? There is always strength in numbers, so if one or both of you are questioned, you can let one do the talking while the other records. Always lawyer up, don't talk any more than you have to, and have PRINTED a copy of the Wichita Municipal Code Section 5.88.010 as well as any other pertinent documentation such as reasonable articulate suspicion etc. You are not required to provide an ID, as you are not in a vehicle. This, however, makes plenty of officers unhappy.
If you are asked to leave ANYWHERE, you are required to leave, whether or not there is appropriate "No Firearms" documentation. Meaning if I go to Dillon's and a manager asks me to leave or put my firearm in my vehicle, I must do so. A cashier or whomever else doesn't really have any authority. They make a comment at you and say, "Is that a gun?" or "Why are you carrying that?"
You do have a few options here, and none of them are "wrong". The way I do it, is I get a feel for why they're asking. Are they asking because they want to be snide? Is it obvious they don't like guns? If so, I say something to the effect of, "Well, if it's all the same to you, I'd just like to be shopping and be on my way."
If they are genuinely curious, don't hesitate to inform them about the laws here in Wichita! Explain to them how ass-backward the law is here! Direct them to this forum! Give them a business card for them to contact you if they have any more questions, for goodness' sake! Be nice!
BUT.......
Do not resist lawful OR unlawful arrest. You will not win on the side of the street, much less with a weapon at your side. Be polite. Do not handle your weapon in any way in public, do not motion toward your gun in front of an LEO. Follow their instructions. If you would feel more comfortable meeting beforehand, please do not hesitate to PM me. I open carry 24/7 in my apartment complex, some or most of the time when I go out to eat, and I'm still trying to respect the presence of children so I have not yet open carried in supermarkets or any stores at all.
You will get looked at strangely. If this bothers you, get more comfortable with open carry at home until you basically don't notice the gun at your side. It's a 9mm tumour for most people and they're going to look at it -- and you -- that way. If you are self-conscious about it, it's something you'll have to get over.
I was actually just about to post a "My Open Carry Wichita Experience" thread that I'd encourage you to look at.
Anyway, like I said, don't hesitate to PM me and I'll give you my cell phone so we can arrange a time and date to meet up between the two of us.
Warm regards and be safe,
Justin