BB62
Accomplished Advocate
RTA is at it again!
I've written RTA's CEO again, copying in various authorities, the media, and others because of a new news report: http://fox45now.com/news/local/dayton-rta-making-changes-to-gun-policies-after-fox-45-investigation
Letter follows:
Mr. Donaghy,
I’m confused by the specifics of RTA’s proposed revisions to its gun policies, and I would appreciate your help. Let me explain…
On Saturday Gerry Gustin, RTA’s Manager of Security, told me and others (after we rode three RTA buses while openly carrying) that, after consulting with what I believe he called “the legal team”, RTA had been informed that open carry (of a handgun) on RTA buses by an individual possessing a concealed handgun license was legal. That being the case, he said that the RTA Board was going to formally recognize that fact when they voted to approve new gun policies at their next board meeting (June 6).
Mr. Gustin’s assurance meant to me that item #16 of the proposed “Rules of the Road” (attached), which states “No open carry of firearms on RTA buses”, would be removed.
Some of the language in your attached May 16[SUP]th[/SUP] document states the law correctly when it says in part: “lawfully carried and possessed firearms” don’t violate RTA policy – a policy which of course must comply with Ohio law.
But, just a short while ago I become aware of another report (5/23/17) by Kelly May of channel 45: http://fox45now.com/news/local/dayton-rta-making-changes-to-gun-policies-after-fox-45-investigation, which directly contradicts Mr. Gustin’s assurance!
In Ms. May’s report, RTA’s Communications Manager Jessica Olson says that a person would not be allowed to carry a weapon openly onto a bus under the proposed policy revisions. This is simply not in compliance with the law with regard to the carry of a loaded handgun by a person possessing a concealed handgun license or its recognized equivalent.
I’m sure you can understand my confusion: on Saturday I’m told one thing, but on Tuesday a report comes out contradicting what I was told three days before!
Please let me know what policy is going to be presented to the RTA board for acceptance on June 6. (You can consider this an informal request, or a records request - your choice)
Finally, there is additional subject-relevant information in the post-script. Feel free to have a leading member of your “legal team” call me for clarifications, code cites, questions, or disagreements regarding the post-script or any of the above.
Cordially,
me
P.S. - Because Ohio’s gun laws can be confusing, for example, and just for review:
- Open carry of firearms is legal on outdoor public property open to the public
- Concealed carry of handguns is legal on outdoor public property open to the public – by those who possess a concealed handgun license or its equivalent
- Concealed OR open carry of handguns is legal on RTA buses by passengers – as long as they possess a concealed handgun license or its equivalent
- Regardless of whether or not RTA dislikes firearm carry on its property, or open handgun carry on its buses, RTA is a political subdivision of the State of Ohio, and as such, must comply with ORC 9.68, which among other things disallows RTA from setting its own rules regarding firearm possession or carry
Additional information:
- ORC 9.68 is clear. It says in part “Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.” ORC 9.68 and subsequent court decisions have made clear that political subdivisions such as RTA cannot (unless otherwise authorized) establish their own rules, regulations, etc. regarding firearms or in opposition to state gun laws.
- ORC 2923.126 is clear. Among other things, it lists the places where a concealed carry license does not authorize an individual to carry a *concealed* handgun. RTA buses and the like are not one of those places.
- ORC 2923.16 is clear. With regard to those possessing a concealed handgun license, there is NO requirement that one’s handgun be concealed while in or on a vehicle. See, for example, 2923.16 (F)(5).
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/gp9.68
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16
I've written RTA's CEO again, copying in various authorities, the media, and others because of a new news report: http://fox45now.com/news/local/dayton-rta-making-changes-to-gun-policies-after-fox-45-investigation
Letter follows:
Mr. Donaghy,
I’m confused by the specifics of RTA’s proposed revisions to its gun policies, and I would appreciate your help. Let me explain…
On Saturday Gerry Gustin, RTA’s Manager of Security, told me and others (after we rode three RTA buses while openly carrying) that, after consulting with what I believe he called “the legal team”, RTA had been informed that open carry (of a handgun) on RTA buses by an individual possessing a concealed handgun license was legal. That being the case, he said that the RTA Board was going to formally recognize that fact when they voted to approve new gun policies at their next board meeting (June 6).
Mr. Gustin’s assurance meant to me that item #16 of the proposed “Rules of the Road” (attached), which states “No open carry of firearms on RTA buses”, would be removed.
Some of the language in your attached May 16[SUP]th[/SUP] document states the law correctly when it says in part: “lawfully carried and possessed firearms” don’t violate RTA policy – a policy which of course must comply with Ohio law.
But, just a short while ago I become aware of another report (5/23/17) by Kelly May of channel 45: http://fox45now.com/news/local/dayton-rta-making-changes-to-gun-policies-after-fox-45-investigation, which directly contradicts Mr. Gustin’s assurance!
In Ms. May’s report, RTA’s Communications Manager Jessica Olson says that a person would not be allowed to carry a weapon openly onto a bus under the proposed policy revisions. This is simply not in compliance with the law with regard to the carry of a loaded handgun by a person possessing a concealed handgun license or its recognized equivalent.
I’m sure you can understand my confusion: on Saturday I’m told one thing, but on Tuesday a report comes out contradicting what I was told three days before!
Please let me know what policy is going to be presented to the RTA board for acceptance on June 6. (You can consider this an informal request, or a records request - your choice)
Finally, there is additional subject-relevant information in the post-script. Feel free to have a leading member of your “legal team” call me for clarifications, code cites, questions, or disagreements regarding the post-script or any of the above.
Cordially,
me
P.S. - Because Ohio’s gun laws can be confusing, for example, and just for review:
- Open carry of firearms is legal on outdoor public property open to the public
- Concealed carry of handguns is legal on outdoor public property open to the public – by those who possess a concealed handgun license or its equivalent
- Concealed OR open carry of handguns is legal on RTA buses by passengers – as long as they possess a concealed handgun license or its equivalent
- Regardless of whether or not RTA dislikes firearm carry on its property, or open handgun carry on its buses, RTA is a political subdivision of the State of Ohio, and as such, must comply with ORC 9.68, which among other things disallows RTA from setting its own rules regarding firearm possession or carry
Additional information:
- ORC 9.68 is clear. It says in part “Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.” ORC 9.68 and subsequent court decisions have made clear that political subdivisions such as RTA cannot (unless otherwise authorized) establish their own rules, regulations, etc. regarding firearms or in opposition to state gun laws.
- ORC 2923.126 is clear. Among other things, it lists the places where a concealed carry license does not authorize an individual to carry a *concealed* handgun. RTA buses and the like are not one of those places.
- ORC 2923.16 is clear. With regard to those possessing a concealed handgun license, there is NO requirement that one’s handgun be concealed while in or on a vehicle. See, for example, 2923.16 (F)(5).
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/gp9.68
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16