Update To My Experience
First, thank you all for your comments, they are fantastic and very much appreciated. Below is my update, a little verbose but want to be accurate.
Walmart: I called the corporate offices and have filed a complaint. They said they would send it over to the regional manager. This was earlier in the week and I will wait until next week for a response given the holiday. All said, even with the experience I got an awesome machete that night...Zombie protection.
Police: Epic FAIL! I dropped by the department on Friday and was told that I had to complain to this specific officer's shift supervisor and I should call in the evening the following week. I called the following week and was told that supervisor was off and that I should come back Friday night. I went back last night and had the wonderful experience of dealing with our government personnel first hand. Man, I tell you, the worst service in this country is anything related to the government, for the most part our public servants from top to bottom are just useless, they all behave like they are doing you a favor.
First, this officer had me standing outside the police station for over half an hour waiting for him. The station is closed after 6pm so you have to ring the buzzer. Typical cop behavior, set things up by showing disrespect from the get go, intentionally make me wait to show he has authority over me. He shows up with the look that I'm an annoyance and also has a combat ready detective with him. Does not even waste his time making up an excuse for making me wait or apologize for the delay like any decent human being would. He proceeds to want to speak to me right there at the door, to which I have to request that we find a room to sit down.
We basically had a half hour discussion where I was trying to get him (references to he/him are to the sergeant unless so stated) to tell me anything about their training procedures, their understanding of the carry laws, how they deal with civil rights. Not one thing. He wanted to know what I wanted of him. I told him I don't want this to happen again. I don't want my rights violated. I don't want to be shot by some cop who has no clue about the laws and approaches my car with his weapon drawn, which would have made sense if they were so concerned about me being dangerous. This guy told me that he would have approached me with a drawn weapon, then asked what my issue was since nothing bad happened. Hey dummy, you just told me I was lucky that you were not there with your firearm drawn, what happens next time?
The basic argument that these two guys had was that their main concern is officer safety. They want to get home every night. He forgot to mention that his second concern was his bloated salary and his third concern was keeping his pension he will never get since he does not understand basic math, exponential growth, underfunded pension obligations or 8.1% projected yearly returns (in a 1.4% risk free return environment).
Since officer safety is their primary concern they don't care much about civil rights. I asked how dispatch could send an officer out based on the call they received, that the caller did not state any crime had been committed, the log even stated that the caller asked if I had a CCW and my response was that I did not have to answer him. I explained that the only response to that call is thank you for calling but we have no authority here since no crime has been committed and concealed carry is legal. These guys kept telling me that they have to respond to any call about a firearm and that carrying is not legal, it is only legal if you have a license. He also stated that the public is not used to seeing firearms so they are scared of them. To which I responded that public perception was moot, that it was their duty to thus inform the public of the law when they called with an incorrect complaint. That he was ignoring the law to please the public. His true duty is to protect my rights, not ignore law to please the misinformed.
I then stated that I was going to go outside and start asking old people if they had driver's licenses and if they did not show me their ID I was going to call dispatch and report an illegal driver and that they needed to stop that person and check for a license. The response is that driving a car is different than carrying a weapon, one is presumed to be licensed, the other is illegal unless licensed. And if I did that I would be impersonating an officer. I was nice/smart and did not mention that in order to impersonate him I would need a full frontal lobotomy and six cycles of steroids. Please don't think I am breaking the forum's rules and being abusive. I had a long conversation with this sergeant, when I speak to his intellect I am being fully serious. He was unable to make any cogent arguments outside of his heart felt beliefs. He could not respond to any of my points. He had no basic understanding of the Constitution. It takes less than half an hour to interview a job applicant and figure out they are not bright, this guy failed the basic breath, talk and chew gum test. No one on this forum would hire him to work in their company in any position of merit, unless of course you run the goon squad.
I then asked about the offending officer's lies to me about must inform and printing being illegal. He did not care. His job was to protect the officer. No response for why I would have my firearm taken from me and was frisked, even though once he asked if I had a permit upon showing it clearly no crime had been committed. No response. I read him 790.053 about printing/showing being legal, he said it was too confusing and he could not speak to it. That was probably the most truthful thing he said the entire time. I told him it was 100 words long. I asked if he or his officers were even aware of it. Blank stare.
All roads led to their insistence that they had the authority to do anything so long as they were protecting their own safety. I explained how I personally thought that my Constitutional rights came before their safety, and as unfortunate as that sounded to them, I meant no ill will by it, just a god given thing. It was pretty funny, the detective who stood behind the sergeant the entire time tried to make the usual cop arguments...why didn't you just answer the Walmart guy, what's it matter to you to have the cop disarm you if you are not a threat, why didn't you give the first cop your ID when he asked. I told him I was not a slave or subservient to anyone and that when someone treats me poorly, violates my rights or oversteps their grounds I will stand up for myself, and as much as they are used to passive sheep in the public I was not one of the flock. However, I could tell he understood I was well versed in my rights and that there is definitely an inherent issue in being a cop if you want your safety to be paramount versus the public's rights. I would guess he was not a statist thug, just trying to do a difficult job. He was wrong, but gets a thumbs up for being a decent human being, he even seemed a little uncomfortable with the situation. Almost from the start I could tell he was not too thrilled to act as the enforcer/intimidator for his boss. Although when at one point the detective said disarming me was for their protection, I pointed to his weapon and told him how come he did not disarm himself in my presence for my protection. He said he was licensed. I said so was I, and I train more than he does.
I continued to ask him about my Constitutional rights and the oath he and his officers took to uphold the Constitution. He continued to respond that all that he cared about was getting home safe every night. Bottom line was that this man refused to tell me one thing about their training or procedures regarding firearms carrying. He said if I wanted to know legal stuff I had to call the police attorney. I was not given a form to file, the sergeant refused to give me his name and he was not wearing a badge. In the end he took offense when I told him that Germans were ecstatic in 1933 because the streets were safer under Hitler. He continued with his insistence on his safety and getting home at night, to which my final comment was that if he was so concerned about his safety then perhaps he should get another job.
So I'm being exact about this because I really had no aspirations about getting anywhere with the police. I really wanted to draw out a conversation to get a feeling of where the department stood on the general issue of CCW and OC (I made several references to my belief that it should be fully legal to OC and that I do it when home). If any of you think I took the wrong tact, please understand that it was apparent to me within two or three minutes that the sergeant was going to do nothing and he did not care.
My bottom line assessment is that the sergeant personally believes that Americans legally carrying is a safety risk to him and his fellow pen mates. He stated that he did not care about the law as passed by the legislature, that carrying is illegal until you prove that you have the right to carry. He thought these procedures were the proper way to treat law abiding citizens for availing themselves of their rights and he had no problem violating my 2nd and 4th amendment rights so long as it put his safety ahead of my freedom.
Well, next up is the police attorney, and then the city attorney when this first attorney brushes me off. I told them I would not back down, that I was an attorney and would do what was necessary to get this fixed. It's amazing, no matter how clear I made it that all I was asking for was that they obey the law, that I wanted to be safe, I wanted nothing else, it did not matter the least to this sergeant.
I don't know the percentage of good cops out there is versus statist thugs who revel in abusing people and subjugating them, but it's not even close to acceptable anymore. We are well past the tipping point where the percentage is high enough that a large chunk of society just lumps all police officers into one group of civil rights basing thugs. As I like to say to people, the crap I have gotten into with cops, I can't imagine what it would be like to be black as opposed to a 43 year old white male attorney with two Ivy League degrees. I just don't understand how obtuse these guys can be when we are facing a complete breakdown crisis and they are viewed by a large percent of the population as the enemy. Making it worse for them, as an example, the government workers were the best protected financially running up to the Soviet breakdown, but when the collapse happened they were the hardest hit because they believed they would still be protected and had the farthest to fall.
Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I'll update after my next round of the scrimmage. Last of all, here's an interesting article about the people who make our enslavement possible.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-...t-thugs-and-rocks-they-crawl-out-under?page=1