IDs accepted to purchase firearm???

[67GT390FB]

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Thundar wrote:

[*]
Bill in VA is a pretty saavy gun guy 67 GT, so before you spout absolutes about modified antique cartridge shotguns having to be registered as SBS answer me this: Are all fixed ammunition cartridges readily available through ordinary channels of commercial trade? I think not. So even if youmight beright some of the time you are definately wrong some of the time.

Oh for crying out loud please get ookla and ariel to do some research for you and find out that i was not the one spouting absolutes. Your buddy Bill was in stating thatALL pre 1898 mfg shotguns could be modified w/o registering them. This bit of BAD advice on this open forum could get someone in some serious doo doo. So excuse me for not finding someone who can't comprehend the contentof form 4473 and who won't even admit to being wrong about, for example shortening a 12ga shotgun mfg pre 1899 as being "a pretty saavy gun guy". Yes you are correct that not all cartridge shotguns mfg pre1899 may fall under the requirements of NFA but are you willing to risk the federal jail time on blind faith. I'm not.

 

[Thundar]

imported post

67GT390FB wrote:

Thundar wrote:

[*]
Bill in VA is a pretty saavy gun guy 67 GT, so before you spout absolutes about modified antique cartridge shotguns having to be registered as SBS answer me this: Are all fixed ammunition cartridges readily available through ordinary channels of commercial trade? I think not. So even if youmight beright some of the time you are definately wrong some of the time.

Oh for crying out loud please get ookla and ariel to do some research for you and find out that i was not the one spouting absolutes. Your buddy Bill was in stating thatALL pre 1898 mfg shotguns could be modified w/o registering them. This bit of BAD advice on this open forum could get someone in some serious doo doo. So excuse me for not finding someone who can't comprehend the contentof form 4473 and who won't even admit to being wrong about, for example shortening a 12ga shotgun mfg pre 1899 as being "a pretty saavy gun guy". Yes you are correct that not all cartridge shotguns mfg pre1899 may fall under the requirements of NFA but are you willing to risk the federal jail time on blind faith. I'm not.

Would shortening the shotgun be a violation of the law or would it be a violation of BATFE's twisted interpretation of the law?
Not disagreeing with your push for caution in order to avoid the Gun Nazis Fast Back, but my point was that in this thread you spouted an absolute that was definately not absolute.

NFA clearly contradicts itself. BATFE has an interpretation for which theyare willing to use storm trooper tactics, threaten your family and ruin your life, even if they are wrong.

I pay the tax. Not proud of that. Not the right thing to do, butthen again there is nothing "right" about NFA. Boote the BATFE.

Live Free or Die,

Thundar

 

[user]

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We really should not be having this debate at all. The problem is that the Virginia statute is poorly written. We need to work on fixing that. Specifically, 18.2-308.2:2(B) requires a primary form of identification issued by a state or the U.S. Dept. of Defense. We should eliminate the phrase, "Department of Defense" - seems to me that any form of identification with a picture of the person issued by the United States ought to be taken as just as valid as if it had been issued by a state. A U.S. issued passport, or agency issued employee identification (such as that used by the FAA or FBI) for example.

Furthermore, there is no reason why two pieces of documentation showing the same address should be required. There are two requirements we need to get taken care of, and those are that the prospective purchaser can identify who he is, and secondly that he is actually a resident of Virginia. And, by the way, there is no reason why, for this purpose, a person cannot be a resident of more than one state. There should be no reason why a person could not provide an Oklahoma operator's license along with a property tax receipt from a county in Virginia, as long as he's actually residing in Virginia at the time of the purchase in Virginia.

So the statute should be clear that the documentation required consists of two things: proof of identity and proof of residency. It is irrational to require that these two things be proved in the same way, or that the address information on them match, or that any particular kind or number of documents be required. If a person needs his fishing license (which shows that he's a resident), a birth certificate (to establish his date of birth), a property tax receipt or vehicle registration (to establish his place of residency), and a U.S. passport (reliable picture id, though they do not state an address), for example. Why not?

And as long as we're on the topic, how, exactly, is a street address different from a post office box address? These days, a street address is likely to be the location of a little kiosk in the middle of the subdivision or condo project. Either way, it's merely routing information for mail, and the third line of the address doesn't even have anything to do with the location of the resident, it's the location of the post office the resident's mail goes through. So there are lots of people living in Fairfax County who have Falls Church or Alexandria mailing addresses, because that's where their post offices are that serve their routes. If you wanted to identify where a person actually lives, you'd need the county tax map parcel identification number.

That statute needs fixing. It's broken. Gun dealers don't understand what is required of them, citizens can't figure out how to comply,and I can't imagine that anyone in law enforcement would attempt to bring charges against anyone for violation of the statute. It's too confusing.

This thread should not have been necessary. Anyone agree?

 

[simmonsjoe]

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NavyLT wrote:

Active duty military ID and orders. Other than that he is S.O.L. He can try to buy the rifle from an out of state FFL or from a private party in VA.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-virginia.pdf

18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms...

B. 1.
To establish personal identification and
residence in Virginia for purposes of this section,
a dealer must require any prospective purchaser
to present one photo-identification form issued
by a governmental agency of the
Commonwealth or by the United States
Department of Defense, and other
documentation of residence. Except where the
photo-identification was issued by the United
States Department of Defense, the other
documentation of residence shall show an
address identical to that shown on the photoidentification
form, such as evidence of currently
paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a
current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c)
voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e)
passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g)
hunting or fishing license; other current
identification allowed as evidence of residency
by Part 178.124 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or
other documentation of residence determined to
be acceptable by the Department of Criminal
Justice Services, that corroborates that the
prospective purchaser currently resides in
Virginia. Where the photo-identification was
issued by the Department of Defense,
permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a
duty post in Virginia shall be the only other
required documentation of residence. For the
purposes of this section and establishment of
residency for firearm purchase, residency shall
be deemed to be the permanent duty post of a
member of the armed forces. When the photoidentification
presented to a dealer by the
prospective purchaser is a driver's license or
other photo-identification issued by the
Department of Motor Vehicles, and such
identification form contains a date of issue, the
dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's
license or other photo-identification issued by
the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or
otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective
purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of
an original or duplicate driver's license unless
the prospective purchaser also presents a copy
of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles
driver's record showing that the original date of
issue of the driver's license was more than 30
days prior to the attempted purchase.

This is incorrect, he is NOT SOL.

I had the same problem. The solution is so simple you'll smack your head.

GO TO DMV

REQUEST BOTH YOUR MAILING AND PHYSICAL ADDRESSES ON YOUR LICENSE.
(Suprise! You can do that.)

This was a big *huh?* for me b/c, with a CDL class A, I am required to have my MAILING address by law, yet for handgun purchase, I need physical address to match other paperwork. Luckily a knowlegable lady at the DMV informed me about the dual address. (took 3 DMVs and all employees in them to get an answer.)

My DL says

SIMMONS, JOSEPH GREGORY
PO BOX 157 / 301 Dudley Ferry Road
MATTAPONI, VA 23110.