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Integration/Assimilation of Mexican/Hispanic populations into American Society

jbone

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Jun 4, 2008
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While I think I understand what you're saying, you might want to elaborate just a bit.

While my ancestors may have immigrated from Europe to here hundreds of years ago, I am born American through many generations of born Americans. At some point many generations back my ancestors drop the hyphenation crap (that I believe started in the early 1900’s?) and assimilated completely. I am one of those completed generations, born American, and have never been an immigrant.
 
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thebigsd

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While my ancestors may have emigrated from Europe to here hundreds of years ago, I am born American through many generations of born Americans. At some point many generations back my ancestors drop the hyphenation crap (that I believe started in the early 1900’s) and assimilated completely. I am one of those completed generations, born American, and have never been an immigrant.

That's what I was thinking, and I agree. Thanks.
 

ComradeV

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I'd like to see if opening up the border while also documenting those who cross would make it easier for Border agents to capture criminals attempting to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

I wouldn't know but I doubt it would be harmful.
 

JoeSparky

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I'd like to see if opening up the border while also documenting those who cross would make it easier for Border agents to capture criminals attempting to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

I wouldn't know but I doubt it would be harmful.

All we have to do is CHANGE the current law to allow this and you'd have my support! Isn't that what was being done at ELLIS ISLAND?
 
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jbone

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I'd like to see if opening up the border while also documenting those who cross would make it easier for Border agents to capture criminals attempting to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

I wouldn't know but I doubt it would be harmful.

Imagine just one country, say Mexico, and just half of their some 112 million decide to take advantage of an open border, and then pile on millions upon millions from around the world. Masses flooding our shores, ports, and borders, that is what you are asking for, right, hundreds of millions in most likely a few short years. It would be the biggest catch and release program ever, and costing trillions annually in enforcement, processing, housing and food before the non-assimilators are tagged and released. And that’s probably only the millions upon millions that decide to do it proper, the other millions upon millions are just bum-rushing in. Your open border wish’s clearly represent the suicide of America. Understand the illegal Alien problem will still exist; only a fraction of the people entering would stop to be documented, the remaining would continue to illegally enter. An open border will solve nothing, but is guaranteed to create grave harm upon America.
 

jbone

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All we have to do is CHANGE the current law to allow this and you'd have my support! Isn't that what was being done at ELLIS ISLAND?

This law change would serve as the beginning to the end.

Today’s immigration holds NO comparison to Ellis Island, in any way shape or form. We are no longer building a nation, but rather trying to save a nation from illegal immigration. The last thing we need to do is spend trillions (print more valueless money) more annually on procession stations for mass waves of immigrants. The system we have today in which a person legally enters, mostly works, with the exceptions of abuse like criminals being allowed to stay (Aunt’s of Presidents).
 
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ComradeV

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I find your conjecture to lack merit and be hyperbole.

I suppose you think if controlled substance laws we're relaxed we'd have 100 million plus addicts sprawling out in the streets and maybe even some meth riots.
 

Gunslinger

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Lose.

The ability to regulate commerce with foreign nations gives the federal government alone the authority to set immigration rules. Controlling the entry through the boundaries of a nation is a natural authority of government. In the case of the US, the only question is "Which government?" The Supreme Court answered this question, "The federal government." For many years, the federal government did not exercise much control in this regard. That does not mean that the authority did not pre-exist the Constitution, belonging to the States, and was not ceded to the federal government.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/92/259/case.html

The Feds have the constitutional authority to protect the country. That includes protecting the borders from criminals entering the country. An illegal is 'illegal' and the Feds have the responsibility to deny entry, arrest, deport as required. This is settled constitutional authority. It is no different--and has been called similar to, an invading army. Who has the responsibility to repel that entity? No different with illegal aliens.
 

ComradeV

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I just don't think the laws and their enforcement are as powerful in modifying human behaviour as you would make them seem.

Nor do I see millions of people Zerg rushing the US any time soon during a period of economic downturn.
 

Tawnos

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Lose.

The ability to regulate commerce with foreign nations gives the federal government alone the authority to set immigration rules. Controlling the entry through the boundaries of a nation is a natural authority of government. In the case of the US, the only question is "Which government?" The Supreme Court answered this question, "The federal government." For many years, the federal government did not exercise much control in this regard. That does not mean that the authority did not pre-exist the Constitution, belonging to the States, and was not ceded to the federal government.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/92/259/case.html
Fail.

This analysis fails on multiple counts. I will outline them here.
1) Use of the commerce clause to justify unconstitutional actions is (clearly) not a new thing. It doesn't make it right, or just, or otherwise acceptable, but it's certainly been around for a while. It makes no more sense now than it did when this decision was written.
2) This decision predates 14th amendment due process analysis. One right considered fundamental of all people is the freedom to travel. This has been called out and upheld through many different cases. That freedom is not merely called out as "the right of a citizen" to travel, but the right of a person. As each person who attempts to enter the US is under the jurisdiction of our laws, they must go through individual due process before that right can be denied.
3) The analysis of this law does not jive with other decisions, as it makes exercise of a right (freedom of movement, freedom of association) contingent upon payment of a fee. In this case, it goes even further to justify the outright denial of freedom of movement, stating that it is okay for the government to play "onerous, perhaps impossible conditions" upon the exercise of what is recognized elsewhere as a right. You have to choose one, and between further abuse of the commerce clause and denial of freedom of movement and association versus allowing any who would come her to do so, I choose the latter.
4) Other cases which cite this (e.g. Mountain Timber Co. v. State of WA) point out that the main thrust of this case is "whether a state law deprives a party of rights secured by the Federal Constitution depends not upon how it is characterized, but upon its practical operation and effect."
5) It stretches credulity to suggest the founding fathers would specifically call out naturalization as a power of congress, yet not call out immigration. Having to shoehorn the power of congress into the commerce clause indicates how poor that argument is, when it would stand to reason that an intent to grant the power to limit immigration would have resulted in such being called out as "the power to establish a uniform rule of immigration and naturalization" rather than simply the latter.

We are either a country of enumerated powers, or one where Congress can do anything and justify it because it's "necessary and proper" to protect "commerce". Such a stretch defies logic, and violates the limited government basis of our country.
 

SouthernBoy

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So, anyone care to show me where in the Constitution the government (federal or state) has power to restrict, limit, or otherwise control immigration?

It's in the Bill of Rights.. specifically the Tenth Amendment.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Under this amendment, the states would have the authority to do this.
 

Tawnos

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It's in the Bill of Rights.. specifically the Tenth Amendment.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Under this amendment, the states would have the authority to do this.

14th amendment: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

Freedom of movement is part of the "liberty" which no person may be denied (e.g.). Care to try again?
 
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OldCurlyWolf

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Sep 8, 2010
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Oklahoma
I was never an immigrant.

We all come from immigrant stock.

I can trace some parts of my family tree here to coming over in the 1600's, other parts were here several thousand years earlier and even those were immigrants at one time.

Yet I am an American, my heritage is most of western Europe and two different tribes of Amerinds.

I personally know 1 African-American. He is a short Caucasian who immigrated from Rhodesia quite a few years ago and became a citizen. While I do know a few darker skinned Americans whose ancestors were mostly from Africa, none of them are African-American, they are American. And the tribes are NOT native Americans. They were immigrants also.
 

SouthernBoy

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14th amendment: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

Freedom of movement is part of the "liberty" which no person may be denied (e.g.). Care to try again?

Nope. I'm sticking with the Tenth.
 

SouthernBoy

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I personally know 1 African-American. He is a short Caucasian who immigrated from Rhodesia quite a few years ago and became a citizen. While I do know a few darker skinned Americans whose ancestors were mostly from Africa, none of them are African-American, they are American. And the tribes are NOT native Americans. They were immigrants also.

Someone gets it right!!

While I have an English-Irish-Welch ancestry, that means absolutely nothing since I am 100% American. And like you, I have only known three "African-Americans" in my life and one of them was white.

If you have to qualify your citizenship with a hyphen, you're not an American.
 
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